To have avoided the "outstanding" school?

I think sadly before children start school we have this image in our heads of children sat attentively listening to the teacher in awe when the reality is very different. The staff do their best with the shitty resources they are given ie lack of TAs etc. There are many challenges, if teaching was just teaching and not behaviour management, dealing with low level disruption, children falling out, jealousy over what snack someone has brought in, what lunch bag someone else has etc then it would be a great thing. Not all children are suited to a classroom environment and the school I was in worked really hard to make it as engaging and as fun as possible, running around the playground looking for maths problems to solve, lots of hands on learning rather than just writing in books.

I really hope your child loves their school and you find it a positive experience. I can honestly say hand on heart that my two have had a great time all the way through, Ds2 is now in year 13 so about to start uni in the Autumn.

@Thaimoon you choose the school that feels right for you and your child but can I just address what you saw?

"This particular child was being kept separate from the rest of the class. I understand this may have been for the benefit of the child, but by contrast I saw SEN children amongst the class/their friends and still receiving support at the school we picked"

Having been a volunteer in an outstanding school some children who had SEND and were able to cope with the work being set albeit supported could stay in the class with their peers. There were also some children who were taken out. This is because they were working at a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 years behind their peers. They were kept with their year group for lots of reasons, friendships, mental and emotional health being two of them. However, children can get very upset if they realise they cannot do what the rest of the class can do, there is only so much differentiation for a lesson. Imagine a year 2 child being put into a year 5 classroom.

Did you ask why that child was out of the classroom? There are also (in every school) children with behavioural issues so violent, non-compliant finger breaking, spitting, kicking, hitting, stripping naked, face licking (because it provokes a response) running out of classrooms children who have an EHCP which names that school and I am sure you would want those children not to be sat next to yours when they are experiencing a negative emotion. Often the triggers are known and they can be removed to a calmer environment. Not all SEND is dyslexia or autism, some are 2 years behind their peers due to behavioural issues that have seen them not engage with work.

We had children who had had brain tumours, cancer or leukemia who were also one to one outside of a classroom plus those who have emotional barriers to learning such as divorcing parents, death of a parent and they are tucked away with a professional counsellor also doing some crafting whilst talking about their feelings. A lovely therapy dog comes in and some of the children read whilst sat stroking the dog, they learn about gentle hands having witnessed domestic violence. Children are complex as are their needs.

Ofsted ratings are a bit of a dark art.

Some schools absolutely invest in knowing how to tick the boxes, dot the i's and cross the t's.
I can well believe it. It's much the same for CQC inspections which I have endured many of. One of my best friends works at a Trust that was graded Outstanding a few weeks after my workplace got Requires Improvement. Realistically, there's not a massive difference but, in my friend's words "We obviously learned our lines better than you did". Plus all these things measure what is easy to measure, not necessarily what is really important.
I don't think they are useless, but they are open to manipulation and that needs to be borne in mind when reading them.

Repeating others go with your instinct. DS who is now 17 went to an outstanding infants school, it was very sharp elbowed. Plus, another school in our area was outstanding 5 years ago but two years ago moved to ‘requiring improvement’ guess what? Nobody moved their child as it is an affluent area and where were they meant to move them to!

We had exactly the same situation as this and my child is now in year 2 and we are thrilled we went for the 'not' (Ofsted) outstanding school. It's friendly and supportive, and considers all elements of the children's personalities. Our youngest starts school in September and we're excited for them to join the same school (although once again all of the nursery friends will go to the 'outstanding' Faith school).

Ofsted ratings are a bit of a dark art.

Some schools absolutely invest in knowing how to tick the boxes, dot the i's and cross the t's. There are trends and fads ofsted are focussing on each cycle and consultants who can help schools prepare accordingly.

This stuff does not mean they will do the best for your kid. Its more about how the school is run, and evidencing the processes etc in a very clearly documented, auditable way.

My kids school is "good".

Its very high attaining, kids are happy and well behaved. The things to improve in the ofsted report were woolly things about the content of lesson vs learning objectives. Whatever it is it doesn't seem to stop the kids doing well academically, and they are happy, so who cares.

Exactly the same situation here OP, but my kid is now in juniors so I’ve watched things play out for a few years.

All the (let’s face it) snobs who followed the Ofsted and sent their kids to the exclusive (catchment, behavioural, general ethos) C of E school are regretting it as our lovely, inclusive (diverse pupils in every way, and we take the SEN kids the C of E have kicked out) school is now outstanding and theirs is absolutely not. Their finances are shocking and they have no staff, plus more that I won’t say.

DS also knew no-one when he started as he went to a nursery far away, but wasn’t an issue.

Stick to your guns, it was the faith element and the intolerance (attitude to SEN) which swung in for us too and it’s worked out beautifully so far.

You had your reasons, so stick with them. Can you give more details on what you witnessed?

Also I would advise being a champion of you dc's school if you can. Over the years I have been a parent Governor and a PTA helper in 4 schools in total.

Passionate and positive parents can do a lot to support a school. It's good for staff morale and dc like to see a parent on the hoopla stall or doing the bar at a show.

At dd's school they ask professional parents to come in to do pretend 'interviews' with year 10s. My dd had a solicitor do hers and found it a very good experience.

This.

IME Outstanding = outstanding at paperwork.

I'm sure you have made the right choice OP.

It's funny reading this thread. It's the polar opposite to so many threads where posters are delighted their children have been allocated an 'outstanding' school.

Just to counter a bit of the negativity, though most of us (me included) have posted about why we have disapproved of Outstanding schools in our area, there are of course excellent schools that impress Ofsted too. My DC's Secondary school has been Outstanding ever since I can remember and I think it genuinely is.
I think the key thing to remember is that Ofsted reports can be a useful part of your assessment of a school, but only a part, and that you do actually need to read them! I was shocked when I realised how many parents I know just look at the overall rating but don't read the body of the report which is actually where you are far more likely to find useful information.
And of course everything needs context. If there's something that seems worrying you need to look at why. For example the primary my DC's went to had a particularly low average for SATs one year, but if you knew the school you'd know that that year group had more pupils with additional needs than usual and as it is a small school that had a big impact on the average. Talking to the parents in that cohort they were all really proud of how well their children had done actually.
Look carefully at everything you can, ask questions and trust your gut if things don't feel right would be my advice I think.

Always best to go with the 'gut' feeling.

Surely you weren’t eligible for a place at the faith school anyway, so there’s no actual dilemma? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I used to teach at an "Outstanding" primary school. Never in hell would I consider sending my children there. It was oppressive, run like a dictatorship, children with SEN treated like pariahs, and full of nepotism. SAT results were "adjusted". High staff turnover except those "in" with the headteacher. All creativity and individual thinking stamped out in favour of blind obedience.

The headteacher and SLT knew exactly how to make paperwork look perfect. Teachers who spoke up or left were slandered.

Do not trust Ofsted. Trust your gut.

We didn't send our eldest to the outstanding school. We actually chose the other one, which was requiring improvement at the time. It was absolutely the right choice. The outstanding school ended up having all sorts of behavioural issues that became well known in the years after.

Our local secondary (which eldest is starting at next year, as no other schools nearby, except the other which is rated inadequate!) was outstanding for many years. It's now requiring improvement and there are all sorts of complaints. A great ofsted doesn't mean a school is actually a good school and it can change very quickly. You have to go with your gut and choose what feels right.

You did the right thing.

I'm a semi-retired teacher. Sometimes schools only get an 'outstanding' because they're selective in their intake and therefore get good results.

If they're not treat children with learning needs with respect, they're not all they're cracked up to be. Good call, OP.

I attended an outstanding secondary school. By the time i left it was in special measures. It was in the news for the culture of sexual harassment and bullying, and declining attainment. An Ofsted rating isn't worth the paper it's written on in my opinion.

Anecdotally, a local high school has been outstanding for years. However, a friend who worked there had to leave because of bullying from senior staff, and she wasn’t the only one. She felt the focus was too heavy on kids to achieve top grades at the expense of their well-being, anti-bullying etc. Also that not enough was done to support kids who were struggling, so many SEN kids ended up moving. For some parents, getting the top grades will be their number one priority. For me, I take the approach that exams are there to get you to the next level. If my kids can get decent grades, I’m not bothered about A*s. I’d much rather they feel happy in school, enjoy learning and develop great social skills. I want the staff to be happy, not overwhelmed with pressure, which means they can give their best to the kids.

My kids went to an outstanding primary school and lots of kids with extra needs moved. It was ok if you were a robot but any challenging behaviour was punished not understood. Sounds like you trusted your instincts x

I picked DS's school based on how sweet one of the older kids was with him (he was v bored and acting out and the kid was amazing with him). I later discovered that this kid was the product of the school setup before the head teacher changed, but my instinct was correct as far as it went, the school had been a lovely nurturing place previously. I avoided the outstanding one because when we went to visit, the children were scared to speak when they were asked to say hello to us visiting parents. They were very, very quiet. There was also a little boy who we were unknowingly blocking from getting back into his classroom and he was frightened to say 'excuse me', getting more and more anxious because he needed to get back in. It's massively oversubscribed... And funnily enough the head from DS's school moved there when their head left. I've also worked in LD respite, liaising with schools, and that would have set my alarm bells clanging for a week, OP.

I retract my comment upthread. Ofsted have now said in the last couple of days that despite calls from the teaching community that they will not do away with ‘reductive, misleading and dangerous labels’ (the words of the sister of the headteacher who committed suicide after her Ofsted inspection). Numptys.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-no-plans-to-change-single-phrase-ofsted-judgments/