To think my child is going to be the child everyone else avoids?

I've a cousin who was like this as a toddler. Possessive, grabby, impulse to destroy anything built by another child. He's now the sweetest, most engaging preteen. His parents did get play therapy for him, which worked wonders. Toned down the "alpha", taught turn-taking etc.

My eldest son never cared about his stuff or consequences either. He was really hard work as a young child and I used to worry about the type of adult he would become. He’s in his twenties now and the nicest, sweetest, most loving son. As his reasoning abilities matured he simply grew out of the bad behaviour. Just keep on doing what you’re doing, make sure he always feels loved and secure, and he too will grow out of it (assuming, like my son, no ND).

You need help for your own mental health - try to see a therapist.

I disagree with this. Bad parents don't start three threads looking for advice, strategies and reading material. ND kids shouldn't be left to sink until they are older, just because seeing their behaviour makes you feel superior in your abilities.

I think alot of it sounds like a sibling who has a new baby sister and is playing up for attention and a mum adjusting to having a toddler and baby and struggling a bit.

My middle child went through a similar phase she was three when my youngest was born. I was also exhausted and found it so so challenging on little sleep. I look back now 11 years later and can see I absolutely did have postnatal depression and it made me catastrophize and worry about things in the future that may not and never happened. She was always great at nursery, she was always high energy but well behaved. The cycle broke for us once I started getting better sleep (I did the baby whisperer when my son was 6 months) the days got brighter (he was born in winter) and we got out more and my mood improved. If you think you could have postnatal depression definitely reach out.

I have used fluoxetine and it helped my mood massively and just made me more laid back dealing with my children as at the time I was so easily irritated by normal behaviour that then didn't phase me, it stopped me lying awake at night with anxiety catastrophizing about things that may never happen and I just coped so much better. I was actually only on them for 8 months and have never needed to be since.

Just something else for you to consider, I hope things improve for you soon.

I've had severe PND for nearly 2 years now.
My LO is lovely and happy and everyone loves her but 6 months ago I would have said that everything she did was against me and on purpose.
Since I have been starting to feel better, she has started saying mummy and wanting kisses and cuddles.
I think the situation was a negative feedback loop between the two of us.
Are you on any medication that could help?

I know said with good intent, but behaviour like this is not unusual and is often a phase which needs consistent and firm responses. Stop medicalising poor behaviour. This is what starts kids down the road of assessments that they have special needs and should not be done until far older

Read her previous threads then you will understand.

Oh, also to say that I have a particular soft spot for this 'naughty' boy despite very annoying and challenging behaviour in the past and also, sometimes, currently!

He's such an unusual sort of child and very intense and affectionate in his own sort of sideways way that I think he's going to grow into a really interesting person with the right guidance! So don't despair thinking that the world will think badly of him!

I hadn't read your post before posting mine but it rings so true what you say about the insecurity and needing lots of attention.

Chicken and egg thing possibly, with the challenging behaviour and needing lots of reassurance/attention but it sounds like we're saying similar things.

Also just wanted to say well done - it sounds like you've done an amazing, persevering job and I know it takes so much energy to do it!

The toy snatching is normal, I see this in playcentres all the time, yes some kids are more forceful than others but I don’t go thinking oh, no this child is very unpleasant, I think this is just what kids are like. Has anyone from your circle of friends said something to the contrary to make you so aware of this to stop you going to playdates?
I haven’t read all comments but my advise OP would be to act every time this “unpleasantness” happens as others have said, but also to stop projecting or assuming things about the future. I’ve read that by the age of 4, children change their personalities tremendously.

Name-changed as potentially quite outing.

We had a child at DD's nursery who was periodically very aggressive and defiant. It sounds a bit different to your situation in some ways but not vastly different in others. The nursery tried all sorts of things to stop him hurting other children and one quite helpful thing introduced for all the children was "Tucker Turtle" about what to do when you felt angry, and focused on lots of books about different emotions and how to recognise and deal with them. It was slow-going but I actually think that such an intense focus on emotions was incredibly helpful for my (very rarely aggressive) DD too - the vocabulary and self-control it gave her is now beyond what I expected for a child her age.

The boy is now at school now and doing far, far better, I understand. How much is down to what was done and how much to just growing out of it, who knows.

I am actually of the (very amateur) opinion that he's a particularly sensitive boy in need of a ridiculously over the top amount of affection and positive reinforcement alongside firm but explicitly loving, and 'unbothered' correction (if that makes sense). Essentially he needs key caregivers to have absolute, unquestioning confidence that this is in the range of normal (which, by the way and from what you've described, it is), that he's a lovely boy really and he will - with their love and guidance - blossom into that lovely boy with kindness and consideration for others and to treat him accordingly.

So much easier said than done as a parent with other focuses and with so much skin on the game. It would almost be easier for a very experienced, old-fashioned nanny who's totally sanguine about it and her confidence in him, and in herself to deal with anything he throws at her.

If you're able to channel (fake!) that sort if approach, though, I think it helps to lower the temperature and feeling of being out of control that might be internally scaring your child, particularly if it seems that his caregivers also have no idea what to do with him, or are stressed by his behaviour.

As you and others have said, active praising of any good behaviour is helpful, as is an over-abundance of affection, over-preparing verbally about concrete things he's going to do to behave well before going into a situation, and polite bafflement when he acts out because you know that "he's such a kind / thoughtful boy and kind / thoughtful boys do X, Y and Z" etc. but we'll try again in a bit once he's calmed down type thing.

I hope that some of what I'm saying makes sense. In my experience it's a long process but it's basically a project in managing your own emotions as much a his and faking (if necessary) an absolute calm confidence and loving approach that will get you close to where you want to be. For that you'll need some support yourself.

It's hard, but you're clearly a loving, concerned mother and I'm sure it will all come right. Good luck!

I have only read the OP posts but I wanted to say, my DD was quite similar I think. Examples of her behaviour:

• biting (once at a softplay)
• scratching
• territorial over toys
• running around at playgroup instead of sitting (briefly) to listen to story
• running off/ refusing to continue walking
• generally creating a fight over every tiny thing

There are more, generally she is very physical and we have to explain to her about not just gentle hands but gentle body.

Anyway, I had also wondered about ND, maybe ADHD. But she is now at school (she is 4 but late summer baby) and the teachers say absolutely nothing wrong with her, she is just very strong willed. Her behaviour is starting to get better. She doesn’t bite of scratch anymore. She still gets extremely jealous of her sister and this can be hard, she hates it when I say anything to praise my other daughter. However I just wanted to say that there may be light at the end of the tunnel and the behaviour will likely improve with age.

I have found her extremely hard and sometimes used to even dread my day off with her. But she is much better now. I think she needs a lot of attention, which is difficult to give when you have another child and a job. Anytime I tell her off she’ll say “you hate me” or “you don’t love me”. When I put her to bed, when she has (finally) calmed down and is starting to drift off I tell her how much I love her, maybe sounds silly but I never want her to doubt it so tell her over and over. And I try to play with her 1:1, she loves this and I enjoy it too. We do things she can take control of, e.g. play with her dollhouse, magnatiles and she instructs me on what to do! Not long ago this would have ended with her throwing things - I do think she has just improved with age rather than anything I’ve done, unfortunately.

I also found it really hard to keep being given advice by friends who have just generally compliant children. A lot of the things that would work for other kids just had no affect on her. And then I feel like they think they are great parents and I am shit but actually they just have a child with an ‘easier’ personality!

I will put the discussion about your child to one side as you don’t seem ready to engage. By the way, this is perfectly normal.

What I will say from your many responses on this thread is:

You sound rock bottom op. I think you should go to the GP/HV to discuss the possibility you have post natal depression.

The other thing I would gently suggest is that you consider whether one or both of you and/or your DH are neuro diverse.

At 3, responding to punishment like missing a toy etc isn’t going to sink in yet.

he sounds like he has fairly age appropriate behavior. Maybe a bit challenging…

How if your home environment? Are you generally a harmonious and happy family? I don’t mean running around in fields singing cartoons songs over the top happy, just like middle of the road average happy. If there is parental conflict or stress over whatever issues you may have, that can hugely impact a child’s mood and behavior, even if this atmosphere isn’t directed at him. Children are like emotional sponges. I say this because we had quite a long period when the kids were young when we had a lot of marriage issues and conflicts and also relocated and faced unemployment and family bereavement, and this definitely had a negative effect on the kids who were bricking negative and difficult. Now we are much better and so are the kids!

This sounds so much like my son, who will be 4 in 4 months. I'm pretty sure my son is not ND.
From birth he was always physical, bit, hit and scratched even though we have a very loving gentle family home. I realise that he goes through patches of being bad then being even worse. Then all of a sudden he is fine again but he has a huge boost of language and physical growth in this extra angry stage. I've realised that he gets hugely anxious and that's where it all comes from. Anxious someone else will use a toy that he may want to use for example. So before these situations I've been prepping him that toys get played with and then put down and if they aren't in his hands then he can play with them after their first play with someone else. The prep worked helped massively, he can calm himself quite often now because he hears my words in his head, also I'm better at distracting his bad behaviour. DH and I also have a small chat about a situation earlier in the day and reflect on how we could have done it better in a happy way so that we look forward to the next play time and don't give him anxiety about it.
Good Luck, I know it feels impossible. I know you are hating life right now but push past it positively and know you can fix this. DM me if you want to talk it through more

You say he's high functioning but then what you describe is not. He's low functioning socially and emotionally. This is fairly normal for some neurodiverse children. He absolutely could get a diagnosis even if he's able to converse, understand numbers, letters, follow instructions , use a toilet etc .

It is also normal for some three year olds but I would be much more comfortable with a professional opinion than self diagnosis (or not)

Where can you get help-

self refer to early help tell them about you worst days with him. They should allocate a support worker who can give advice, do some work with your child . Refer you to a parenting course , refer you to counselling (free) Support with getting help from other services. Recommend any local services you may be unaware of.

You could ring your local NHS mental health services and ask to be referred for counselling. Stress management or mindfulness training. All free, it varies from area to area but where I live the wait time is about 3 months.

I think this sort of delving and probing into what might be the root cause of his behaviour is possibly the most helpful thing you can do at this stage? Behaviour is a child’s way of communicating their needs and emotions when they lack the capacity to verbalise it. What emotion is at the root of these behaviours? Is there anyone who knows him well who you can discuss this with? It’s always helpful to bounce ideas off someone.

Once you’ve thought that through, you can then try to address it with strategies. E.g. if it’s jealousy of the baby, can you start love bombing him on a daily basis, working some 1to1 time into your daily routine, even if it’s just 10mins or something short and achievable?

Your next post about PND is also interesting because that’s what came to my mind when reading your posts. Surely the potential side effects of anti-depressants are worth the risk if it helps you resolve this situation?

Another thing I’d say is don’t be dismissive of parenting classes, I’ve seen them have transformative effects on families.

Lastly, I completely understand your frustrations at the repeated suggestion of neurodiversity and agree that you’re unlikely to get a diagnosis so young, and even less unlikely to get the sort of support posters are imagining. But one poster’s suggestion of parenting as if he is neurodiverse was a good one - which is why I think parenting classes might be really helpful.

I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds really tough.

Ok so behaviours

So don't worry about the laughter etc it doesn't necessarily mean how we mean it.

Try to have a consistent routine everyday so he know what to expect. Clear boundaries on things so if he gets a hour screen time everyday keep to it.
Pick your battles so let most things go (for now) focus on the extreme behaviours- hitting, throwing etc. Have one consequence , we did a timeout sit on the stairs for three minutes but we sat wit him - why? Well firstly he wouldn't have sat alone and secondly the purpose of the consequence was to help him regulate which wouldn't have happened if he was alone. We sat with him gave him chance to take a minute. No talking or playing. Everytime. If we could see a behaviour was about to happen we would give a warning, if you do that there will be a time out giving him opportunity to stop.

Lots of praise and attention for good behaviour.

Lots of opportunity to burn energy. Park, soft play etc. some screen time If it helps him but not constant.

Manage his environment, if you can see he's getting overwhelmed distract him, do something to soothe him . Have a few favourite things he loves that he doesn't do all the time to offer if he's struggling to manage his emotions. Play with him lots to role model the behaviours you want to see.

Ok so the first thing to consider is is it nd?

Ask the nursery senco to observe him for neurodiversity concerns. They are trained to spot signs.

There a online questionnaire called mchatr
that's very good. See what he scores.

If it comes up looking like he is ring your health visitor, describe your worst day, tell them what score he got and what senco said ask for a referral to paediatrician.

Why is it better to do it early? Better support in place sooner, not relying on school to do it (who may be good but may not be) and shorter wait times in under fives.

Hi OP. I just wanted to say, you sound completely burnt out. It's very possible you have depression and there is no shame in that whatsoever - millions do. Please don't be afraid to reach out to your GP. Antidepressants really can help - something like Sertraline will rarely cause weight gain. It just takes away the anxiety and despair so that you can cope.

Is there no free counselling you can be referred for by your GO? Even if it's online, that's fine. You need to carve out a space in the week where you can just feel heard, with no judgement. Your GP might be able to refer you fairly quickly, or at least tell you about some helplines in the interim. Don't hold back in the GP. If you feel desperate, tell them. If you don't feel you are taken seriously, go back until you are, or see another GP.

Your posts read as if you are 'stuck'. It's very possible that an strong transference process is going on here - ie. you son is transferring his uncontrollable anger / frustration / sense of hopelessness / sense that nobody can help - into you. The way you are feeling is actually the way he is feeling. With some space, you may be able to interpret your sense of hopelessness as the key to understanding tour son's feelings - which he can't make sense if at all because he's only 3! He can only act out. But you can talk it out and begin to make sense that way. You need to talk to people in real life - be open and accept help. Tih are internalising a lot at thd moment. You don't need to be alone with this. You do sound resistant to help, as if you're so overwhelmed you've given up. This is probably how your son feels too. If you want him to begin to accept help, you need to do the same. You are already reaching out on here and that's a great thing. It's a first step.

I know you can't see the wood for the trees at the moment, but really, children have all sorts of phases. Things will NOT be like this forever. You are doing your best. Be kind to yourself. Stop blaming yourself. Keep talking - to friends, a counsellor / therapist (if at all possible), even the Samaritans if you need to. You will all come though this. I wish you the very best.

I haven't read the full thread but I've read OPs responses.

You should contact your child social services early help and advice services. Check your local authority website. Much more likely to be actually helpful than a GP at this stage.

I also strongly disagree that asking for professional help will label you as pushy or neurotic as you seem to think. People will see that you are worried and consistently trying to get support. Although the help won't be immediate I am sure you will be registering your concerns at an early stage.