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AIBU?

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Original poster

SIL and BILs parenting style - is this okay or AIBU?

328 replies

shootingstar001 · 23/04/2024 11:39

Me and DH recently went on a short break with his sister and her husband.They have 2 children 2 and 5.

we live really far away so obviously we don’t see them super regularly but when we are all together we’ll do something with them for longer stretch of quality time like a trip or mini break.

we’ve both noticed before that they don’t seem to ever discipline their kids or say no - this is obviously a conscious choice they’ve made together. I’m aware that a ‘gentle parenting’ style is a bit more of modern choice but to me the complete lack of boundaries was really visible and really affected us and everyone around us. We both found it quite shocking especially in public settings like going for dinner etc. They seemed a bit oblivious but me and DH felt really tense by the end as there was always an ‘incident’ or two everyday. It did sort of ruin the end of the holiday.

Few of things that happened (sorry some of these are bit gross)

  • Allowed their 2 yr old DS to wee in the shared villa pool
  • Allowed 2 year old to poo in a public spaces (not in toilet)- pub garden/public park etc
  • Allowed both kids to play a game throwing large rocks and pebbles at people walking by
  • Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’
  • Allowing 5 year DD to scream continuously in high pitched tone in restaurants (happened several times) - going through a phase of thinking it’s funny - both didn’t tell her to stop. DH did gently tell her a few times that we weren’t enjoying in perhaps other eating dinner might not like it either. Both parents said nothing.
  • A lot of tantrums/fake crying - no intervention/words.

We never had kids so I’m really aware that I might not ‘get it’ - because of this we both feel that questioning someone parenting style might be a bit of a d**k move but it does really marr the time we spend with them.

Do we say something or just ride it out until the kids are a bit older and it’s everything is just a bit easier?

Really don’t want to damage my relationship with my SIL and BIL but also starting to dread family time with them. Advice please!

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 23/04/2024 16:36

shootingstar001 · 23/04/2024 14:37

Thanks for everyones feedback, it's good to get a perspective from other people especially parenting. Our feelings at the time felt quite strong that the line from 'letting them express themselves' has been massively crossed into letting them do whatever they want/lack of parenting/lack of awareness for others but it's easy to question yourself with these things when you aren't the parents!

Sorry I've used the term gentle parenting when permissive parenting is the correct one (didn't really know, SIL and BIL haven't vocalised their style as any one particular thing)

@coxesorangepippin We do try and say things and the greater family like MIL, AIL do definitely make a point of firmly telling them off when in a larger group setting.
I have told DD 5 off on several different occasions for the shrieking/wailing thing she things does that she is thinks really hilarious but think I find it the most difficult as I'm not a mother/not SIL's blood relative.

I think some of the comments on this thread about them being abusive/neglectful and should be reported are way too much though - I want to stress that they do provide a loving, affection, safe environment and their children are cared for. Incidents like the rock throwing was super worrying but from their perspective, but in their heads they are approaching it from a place of 'just let them express themselves and figure it out themselves' and they aren't going to let their kids come to harm. I do 100% agree though this is problematic, super flawed and concerning. I do worry about the kids in terms of struggling in the world going forward - you can't just do whatever the hell you like, life doesn't work that way.

As we live far away it's hard to limit contact otherwise we will be missing the kids growing up and there is a lot of pressure on us to make the effort as we were the ones that moved far away. Agree with everyone that the next step is that we won't be doing any more holidays though - the one before that was really stressful also. It's doesn't feel like we are making good memories when we are finding it stressful.

Sorry, they are lazy at best, neglectful at worst

They'll have a heck of a shock when they start school as that behaviour won't be tolerated and the children won't be popular (I've come across a few like this in my time)

Ohlookwhoitis · 23/04/2024 16:36

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 12:42

all of the comments so far are hilarious... litterally you have taken the OP at her word. there is no scope for another interpretation of events.

if this post had come from an actual parent i would have been a little more forgiving, but this is a non-parents perception and description (remember we were not there so we do not know what actually did happen its only what the OP has seen) and everyone is coming for me because i have not said

this is disgusting behaviour, social services must be contacted immediately and these children should be removed to a safe environment!

give your heads a shake...

I'm guessing you were 'gentle parented'. By the way the kids are 5&2, it's in the OP so you can stop scweaming that the OP didn't give you that information. You're making a holy show of yourself on this thread. Go and lie down.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 23/04/2024 16:34

I also think they are being neglectful. Letting them throw stones is maybe funny when they're 2, annoying when they are 5, but will end up with someone (possibly them, when someone retaliates) getting very hurt at some point if it continues. Not teaching your kids basic societal norms and basic wrong/ rights will seriously fuck them up

pontipinemum · 23/04/2024 16:31

I don't think you need to be a parent to see clearly what is shite parenting! Those kids are going to be absolute arseholes.

BotterMon · 23/04/2024 16:27

I pity their poor teachers in a few years time. YANBU OP - I would avoid spending any time with them in the future and tell them their kids are feral and not pleasant to be around.

Ohlookwhoitis · 23/04/2024 16:13

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 12:09

just because i can see a different side to everyone else... its not easy taking kids on holiday and having judgey non parents scowling.

every has simply taken the OP at their word... this must now be law.. what is written is true..

its hilarious that some people simply cannot accept that the OP may have used poetic license to get everyone on side and if someone disagrees with OP then they must be dragged into the streets and burned like a witch

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You're going on as if you're the only person who has taken their kids on holiday. All the rest of us managed it just fine. Control your kids.

Swanbeauty · 23/04/2024 16:13

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at OP's request.

Bunnycat101 · 23/04/2024 16:13

I couldn’t spend much time with them. It’ll be harder for you to judge as you don’t have children but since having my own I am even less tolerant of shitty parenting. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone has moments where they take the easier path and give in to tantrum etc but it sounds like they just can’t be arsed. I wouldn’t have let mine do any of the things listed.

Ohlookwhoitis · 23/04/2024 16:10

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 11:51

i wonder how much of this behaviour was more your interpretation of what happened.

weeing in the swimming pool... did you over hear mum and dad say 'its ok jimmy just pee in the pool' or ws it a case of jimmy announcing 'ive just wee'd in the pool' and mum and dad did not tell him off (at 2 years old they are barely potty trainined).

would need more information on poo'ing in a car park... as in did they just drop and squat and shit.. did mum and dad say, just take a dump there lad you'll be ok, or was it a case of 'mummy i've poo'd' and the parents have not told them off?

allowing them to throw stones at people passing, as in here ya go jimy he's a good rock.. see who you can hit or jimmy was throwing stones and mum and did didn't immediately give them a punch?

punching? you said his arms were windmilling... thats a toddler with lots of energy letting off steam probably accidently cathing passing tourists...

kids scream... its not about being allowed to scream.. its what they do. boring aunty and uncle were being all adult and they wanted attention.

fake crying... again boring aunty and uncle wanting mummy and daddy to be all grown up.

while there are 2 sides to every story, im going to guess the fact you do not have children shines through here.... parents normally, but there are ofcourse expecptions allow all of this... but sometimes it happens

I read this thread and thought surely no-one is going to come on and defend this behaviour...but here you are. It's absolutely shocking that you said this to OP to defend feral scum parenting.

while there are 2 sides to every story, im going to guess the fact you do not have children shines through here...

So just to be clear, you have excused peeing and shitting in public. The stone throwing is the biggest reach however

allowing them to throw stones at people passing, as in here ya go jimy he's a good rock.. see who you can hit or jimmy was throwing stones and mum and did didn't immediately give them a punch?

It doesn't take a genius to know that you're a 'gentle parent'. Your type always come on and talk about violence against children as if that's what the rest of us do.

Not once have you acknowledged the parents lack of parenting.

KomodoOhno · 23/04/2024 16:09

saraclara · 23/04/2024 14:51

if this post had come from an actual parent i would have been a little more forgiving,

Why? Non-parents are perfectly capable of recognising appalling parenting. You don't have to be a parent to know that standing at the side of a swimming pool and weeing into it is poor behaviour and needs to be recognised and such and dealt with by the parent.

Agreed. I didn't have dc until 36 but I sure knew this behavior was not remotely ok before that. It's common sense.

VelociraptorsVelociRapping · 23/04/2024 16:08

Whatafustercluck · 23/04/2024 15:26

I think they're misinterpreting gentle parenting. It doesn't mean no intervention, it means corrective intervention in a way that is appropriate to cognitive development and expected social etiquette.

  1. Tell me when you need a wee and I'll help you find the toilet, which is where wees go
  2. Tell me when you need a poo and I'll help you find the toilet, which is where poos go
  3. It's ok to throw rocks into water, but throwing rocks at people isn't allowed because it hurts them.
  4. We use our quiet, indoor voices in restaurants so that we can hear each other talk.
  5. Spinning your arms around is for bigger spaces, away from other people.

I know some people prefer not to say "no" because it gets repetitive and doesn't teach children anything if used repeatedly. It can also be pretty soul destroying (even for an adult) to hear "no" all the time. Positive parenting is about reframing negative language into something that's more acceptable. Using "no" sparingly means that when it absolutely has to be used, it's in situations that are dangerous to the child or other people. So if the child hadn't listened to the corrective phrasing around throwing rocks and windmilling, then "no" and a quick explanation of why not, is perfectly appropriate.

What you've described is an absence of parenting, which is neither positive nor gentle.

Edited

OP has clarified that they don’t claim to be gentle parents. She has mistakenly applied that term based on her misunderstanding of the concept.

nutbrownhare15 · 23/04/2024 16:08

That's not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting has boundaries. That's permissive parenting. Zero boundaries. None of that is ok.

Kandalama · 23/04/2024 16:04

Firstly I thought I’d not go away with them again till the kids are older but then I realised the 5year old is so bad and their behaviour is just going to get more and more unbearable.

So maybe the odd day visit, to their house not yours as I’d worry they might trash the place. See them for a day and stay somewhere else on your own.

In the meantime if you do see them and the kids are like this I would speak up. Just because you haven’t had kids doesn’t mean you are devoid of common sense and that’s all parenting is.

If they weed in a communal pool I would say…..please don’t do that other people want to swim in there
If they are screaming in a restaurant I would say……can you ask ds/dd to be quiet I’m getting a terrible headache.
If they are throwing stones at people I would say…….ds/dd could hurt someone and they’d be well within their rights to get the police involved.

I would also leave the pub if someone at my table decided to poo in a bush. Even a kid.

You have more awareness and common sense than your relatives OP, the6 need help.

Iaskedyouthrice · 23/04/2024 15:55

Having read the thread I dread to think how @adviceaunt 's kids behave in public. Please do better. Your children will thank you for it.
That sounds unbearable OP, I wouldn't be going away with them again that's for sure! Can you not asked them directly why they are so passive? For example, when the children were throwing rocks at people did you not say anything?! I think I would have snapped at that point.

CharlotteBog · 23/04/2024 15:53

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 15:41

this is hilarious... you've all jumped on the bad parent band wagon based on one persons descritpion of events that happened...

ive said over and over the behaviour if the account it true.. is not good..

i will amend my comments too; bad parents hunt them down and burn them at the stake! this appears to be the normal response on MN... its actually so funny

Edited
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I'm happy to jump on the bandwagon where allowing children to throw large rocks at people is regarded as terrible (or non) parenting.

Yes, we only have what the OP says. If she is making it up or a troll or whatever then so be it. That is the case with every single post on MN.

HAF1119 · 23/04/2024 15:51

You can let a child express themselves without letting them be unsafe/rude/dirty/a pest to others.

Expressing themselves = choosing own outfit, choosing own ice cream flavour, choosing if they want to give a cuddle or just a wave goodbye

Allowing rudeness = allowing them to hit/punch then giving the ice cream with no please/thank you etc etc

They're creating monsters and it isn't even the childrens fault. Then they'll be monsters at school and the parents will wonder why all this bad behaviour is being noted when they're such 'little angels'

It's very sad - and I hope not true if I'm honest! I can't imagine not stopping my child peeing in a pool/hitting people/throwing stones at people!!

BabySnarkDoDoo · 23/04/2024 15:49

It's sounds like they don't want to parent their kid at all. They're letting him behave poorly in ways that are affecting others like hitting etc. I understand not sweating the small stuff with little kids, like letting little Johnny eat sweet food before savory if it means he will eat more, but that's something which isn't negatively impacting others in anyway, so fair enough.

Mamma63637 · 23/04/2024 15:43

Wow, I have a SEN child with very high needs and have to do low demand parenting to get them through the day.

I'd never let my child do any of that! When it starts to adversely affect others, I'd take them out of the environment, I'd keep them in nappies, I wouldn't let them hurt others!

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 15:41

VJBR · 23/04/2024 15:39

Are you for real? This is disgusting behaviour. If he isn't toilet trained then put a nappy on when you go out. But maybe this is the norm for you.

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this is hilarious... you've all jumped on the bad parent band wagon based on one persons descritpion of events that happened...

ive said over and over the behaviour if the account it true.. is not good..

i will amend my comments too; bad parents hunt them down and burn them at the stake! this appears to be the normal response on MN... its actually so funny

VJBR · 23/04/2024 15:39

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 12:01

you see you have drip fed information.... what was mum supposed to do about little jimmy taking a riddle i the pool under those circumstances with judgy aunty scowling..

pub garden... so parents knew he needed a poo, but ht refused the toilet so they just let him pull down his pants, cop a squat and hey presto? or did he just take the position all kids do when they need a poo... and poop his pants.. like all kids being potty trained do?

what age is this child? if its the 2 year old... i'd say barely potty trained.

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Are you for real? This is disgusting behaviour. If he isn't toilet trained then put a nappy on when you go out. But maybe this is the norm for you.

MonsteraMama · 23/04/2024 15:36

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 13:23

My apologies I did misread the ages..

not the SIL although I'd be furious if I was that my SIL posting a biased thread for people to judge me on.

I stand by all my comments. Without context you can't call SIL a bad parent.

All these things are very obviously unacceptable behaviour depending on the circumstance.

All those who don't believe children and adults don't wee in a pool are deluded ... it's wrong... but it happens

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Can you explain why no-one is allowed to call the SIL a bad parent without context but you're allowed to call the OP a shitty SIL without context? Why is your contextless judgement acceptable but no one else's is?

Seriously hope you are neither a parent or an actual advice aunt because it sounds like you'd suck at both. The context of that judgement is your response to this thread, in case you're wondering.

Coconutter24 · 23/04/2024 15:31

That’s not ‘gentle parenting’ as you called it that’s lazy parenting and I use the word parenting very lightly. They might be laughing now but in a few years when the kids are running riot and not listening to anything it won’t be as fun

LakeTiticaca · 23/04/2024 15:31

@Sharontheodopolodous what a surprise.......not!!

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 15:31

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 23/04/2024 15:28

None of my children behaved like this. If yours do, then you need to buck your ideas up.

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oh good lord...

IamnotwhouthinkIam · 23/04/2024 15:29

The screaming/ running around/ frequent tantrums is annoying for others (especially in restaurants) but not super unusual- especially for a 2 year old. Proponents of gentle parenting might not correct their kids doing that as technically it isn’t physically hurting anyone.

BUT no “gentle” parent would not stop their kids throwing stones at people - hurting others is the opposite of gentle parenting! 😡

Also while they might allow peeing (maybe even pooing) in an emergency in the bushes or something while out - kids intentionally doing that in the pool where other people could have contact with it could do physical harm , so it makes no sense to me why they wouldn’t correct that behaviour either 🤷‍♀️

My understanding is that “gentle parenting” means letting children express themselves, so no very strict behaviour rules/correction (like the old fashioned “children’s should be seen, not heard” or smacking ) but not at the expense of hurting others - especially physically! I don’t know of any child that isn’t told off for hurting someone.