To consider a bigger rental flat when DH is unemployed?

leftorrightnow · 2024-04-23T10:22:07+00:00

This is a tricky situation and lots of emotions involved, so please be gentle! - We live in a two bed flat with two kids, 7 and 9 years old, they share a room, this room is also DH's home office - The flat is rental, we love the area and it's near my job and the kids' school which is a great school where we'd like them to stay and they are thriving there - The flat, however, has glass doors into the living room from the kids' room, so after they've gone to bed and we have closed those doors, we have to be very quiet in the living room and can't speak in more than hushed tones, can't watch a film etc.. - DD, who is 9, is begging for her own room consistently and is also introvert and needs her space - We had been planning to get a mortgage this after the summer last year but in September, DH lost his job due to a crisis in his industry, which is still ongoing, with high levels of unemployment globally. Currently the outlook for his reemployment is uncertain (he is doing all he can, don't want to overload the post with details on this..) - My job situation is stable and my job is well-paid enough that we can with no problems stay in this flat, on my income and his unemployment support, which he is guaranteed for two years (17 months more from now). We can even still have the occasional meal out and are going on holiday this year, and have not touched our savings yet. - I am considering looking for another rental in our area with one more room and a rent increase of approx. GBP 200-300 per month. On our current income we can manage that, just would have to cut back a bit on 'fun' spending like new clothes and meals out and holidays, but not to the extent of cutting it all, just being a bit more careful. - But is this a bad move, given that A) getting a mortgage would be better in the long run, and we would be able to get that (a bit further out though) once DH is hopefully employed again - but when will this be we don't know B) increasing expenses when one person is unemployed seems irresponsible, isn't it C) the loss of deposit (it always happens, right??) would then be times two, and the other costs associated with moving are also to be considered. - BUT: I feel so bad not being able to provide the kids each their room, I'm being driven mad by the lack of privacy for DH and I, and every time someone comes around I feel a bit embarrassed about the small space and the kids sharing a room and with DH's computer in there too (I know this last pint is so superficial, but had to mention it). What would you all do?

Original poster

leftorrightnow · 24/04/2024 10:33

atlaz · 23/04/2024 18:09

My husband is Danish and I was offered a job (2 year contract) but ultimately we decided not to go as we weren't confident that I'd be able to get another job when limited by language skills. I've been learning for 5 years and whilst I can understand a lot, I struggle to speak anything comprehensible at all as I just can't make the sounds. English is everywhere and it's very difficult to immerse yourself.

Yes, that is the challenge. We know so many expats here, many who have been here +10 years and still don't speak the language! and it is not for lack of trying, Everyone speaks English, it is not like in many other countries where people don't widely speak English, so you are pushed to engage in the local language all the time. Yet, the labour market very much expects Danish. It is a paradox and not easily resolved, and, I suspect, one of the reasons why Denmark is far down the list of preferred locations for expats, despite being a very strong welfare state, safe and with good and free education and healthcare etc etc., but it is a very very hard place to integrate into for foreigners. Much harder than the UK. I know this, and I know DH moved here to allow me to be near my family and because he knew it would be a good place for the kids to grow up, and it is! so he and I don't ever regret moving, in the long term and bigger picture it was the best choice for our particular family and setup, but he is the one who is paying the price for this move, so it would be very unfair for me to be hard on him for being unemployed now, he cautioned this particular thing could happen before we moved, and now it has. So I am not taking his dual screen setup away from him; )

BUT! we had a chat last night and have now agreed (was even very happy!) to move his desk into the bedroom and reorganise the kids room : )

He also told me more specific things about what he is doing to reconsider and retrain professionally, so I am convinced he is fully ware of the seriousness of his situation and his industry as a whole, and doing what he can, as fast as he can, but no one switches industry in the blink of an eye.

Thanks for all your advice and support, I know feel hopeful we can make things work in this flat for a while longer, and DD was super excited when she heard of the plan, and said finally she would get some more privacy, which is what I think she needs. DS, bless him though, broke down in tears and cried for 20 minutes, because he did NOT want his dad's 'cool' computer moved out of the room, and apparently 'likes it' when his dad is sitting working next to him playing, lol. Just goes to show, but he is at an age where kids don't like changes and need privacy less, I am sure he will get used to the idea in time.

OP posts:

atlaz · 23/04/2024 18:09

My husband is Danish and I was offered a job (2 year contract) but ultimately we decided not to go as we weren't confident that I'd be able to get another job when limited by language skills. I've been learning for 5 years and whilst I can understand a lot, I struggle to speak anything comprehensible at all as I just can't make the sounds. English is everywhere and it's very difficult to immerse yourself.

jannier · 23/04/2024 17:39

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 13:55

I also think he needs to focus on improving his language skills here. But it’s a real struggle to get him to do it as it wasn’t needed at all when he was working as his industry is so international and he was working remotely a lot of the time, so I think he refuses to face having to learn the language. It’s a hard language to learn too. I’m working on convincing him, but her other thing is he’s applying for jobs pretty much every day so keeps thinking it is just that little bit longer, think he is a bit in denial

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How's he going to improve his language skills shut indoors on computers all day

Rookangaroo4 · 23/04/2024 17:39

No id stay put and think long term benefits of owning your own home.

jannier · 23/04/2024 17:37

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 11:44

He has been working mainly remotely since we moved here (has had some local gigs but his industry isn't wel-developed here, we moved here for my job and as I have family here - note - I am not expatriated here, just found a good job here)
but the issue is his industry is in crisis globally. Every job post has an overload of applicants, he is applying to them all, but so far no luck, and this means the crisis in his industry may also last for years and the outlook is uncertain, which is why he is trying to move into an adjacent industry, but even that is hard, safe of completely retraining, there ins't a lot more to do right now...and retraining would mean years of very low income as he retrains, whereas his industry is well paid when he is working.

Yes have thought of switching the room around, but currently we keep the glass doors open during the day as it makes the whole space feel bigger and works really well with the kids using the whole space (living room and play room), and obvs, we would not be doing this if that was our bedroom...but may reconsider..

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Why wouldn't you have the doors open anyway....just be tidy and don't have embarrassing items out.....nightime and evenings are more important

Original poster

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 17:16

TheDefiant · 23/04/2024 17:11

My DH is in post production. That industry had collapsed in the UK too. Hardly anyone is commissioning new programming.

So many freelance editors struggling right now. It's awful.

I think you should stay put and make changes to your current living situation to make it work.

Kids share the bigger bedroom - even if that one is near the glass doors. Do something else to the glass doors to block sound and light. You could use curtains and a screen or place furniture in front of it (so long as there is another door of course). A wardrobe in the kids bedroom side would block out all the sound and light meaning the adults could enjoy that space at night time.

Get on Pinterest there are lots of ways to make sharing a room more private. Including one where you place a bunk bed in the middle of the room and partition around it to create 2 rooms almost.

Move DHs desk out of the kids bedroom. That won't be helping with the need for privacy.

Find somewhere else for his desk - maybe your room or the living space.

Before we saved up and bought the pod my DH worked on the dining table, he pushed his monitors and other equipment to one side so that we could eat there.

You know what it’s like then. Out of interest, if your DH considering changing profession? It’s so tough.

OP posts:

TheDefiant · 23/04/2024 17:11

My DH is in post production. That industry had collapsed in the UK too. Hardly anyone is commissioning new programming.

So many freelance editors struggling right now. It's awful.

I think you should stay put and make changes to your current living situation to make it work.

Kids share the bigger bedroom - even if that one is near the glass doors. Do something else to the glass doors to block sound and light. You could use curtains and a screen or place furniture in front of it (so long as there is another door of course). A wardrobe in the kids bedroom side would block out all the sound and light meaning the adults could enjoy that space at night time.

Get on Pinterest there are lots of ways to make sharing a room more private. Including one where you place a bunk bed in the middle of the room and partition around it to create 2 rooms almost.

Move DHs desk out of the kids bedroom. That won't be helping with the need for privacy.

Find somewhere else for his desk - maybe your room or the living space.

Before we saved up and bought the pod my DH worked on the dining table, he pushed his monitors and other equipment to one side so that we could eat there.

Toastcrumbsinsofa · 23/04/2024 16:56

I understand the employment issues now that you’ve explained your DH’s professional background. It’s definitely not a good idea to move until you have a better idea of when he can work in the future and if he will (hopefully) have similar opportunities to earn the amount he did previously.

Original poster

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 16:54

dollahsains · 23/04/2024 16:16

OP we can't comment on whether getting a mortgage is sensible if we know nothing about Denmark! Even in the UK social housing tenants have little need for one. Their rent is usually lower than market rate, secure lifetime tenancy and housing benefit pays a lot of the rent.

What I can comment on though is the instability of your DH industry. Also, I know a couple of people in the industry and AI, post-production jobs being massively outsourced is a big deal. Your DH living in an expensive country is at a massive disadvantage.

It would be unwise to move before he sorted his career.

Don't you qualify for any bigger social housing or government help? I thought Denmark was some sort of Scandinavian utopia.

It would be OK if you could be the main earner but is appears not - you are relying on his unemployment benefit still? It's not a nice extra.

Edited

Yea he needs to reconsider his career and that’s what he’s doing now, trying to move into programming.
my income is too highly for any social housing or other benefits. Without his income we could survive but not in this area.

OP posts:

Snoken · 23/04/2024 16:46

If you do move the rooms around will the kids actually get that much less space given that they won't have their dads office in their bedroom?

ladykale · 23/04/2024 16:45

lateatwork · 23/04/2024 11:45

Kids get room each. You sleep in lounge. Younger kid gets dad's desk in their room.

Once hubby finds job, look to buy or rent a bigger place.

Hubby could also work for co-working place (which is cheaper than moving....) or library etc Depends if his stuff is portable - IE can do most without dual screens etc

lol why on earth would the parents have no bedroom so the kids can have their own room each?!!! A 7 and 9 yo do not need their own room

fieldsofbutterflies · 23/04/2024 16:44

I wouldn't move house but I would move your flat around a bit.

Put the DC in your room, and then split that room with furniture to give them a bit more privacy - there are loads of examples online. You then get your evenings back and maintain your sleep space.

DH's desk needs to stay in your bedroom - it's not fair that the kids' room is taken over by his massive work space. Get a privacy screen/curtain to put between your room and the living room.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 23/04/2024 16:29

I've been in a similar situation with my husband. The SAHD support is an absolute godsend as a working mother, but you watch their self esteem go down the toilet if it goes on too long.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 23/04/2024 16:27

Plus if his desk is in your bedroom you can watch a film in bed and not disrupt the kids.
Otherwise I'd move into the kids room and put up black out blinds for you.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 23/04/2024 16:26

Ok - well the industry specific info is actually quite useful. It will pick up but it's like that old adage, the USA has a sniffle, the rest of the world gets a cold.

I'd stay put and rejig his desk. I'd work on the basis that if his ship comes in and it looks like a decent gig then you reconsider moving/mortgaging. You could have more space but less cash to do nice things together as a family and these years fly by. As a period of downtime he is spending a lot of time with his family and I assume when he is working, it's all systems go?

Lastly, free language tuition and presumably a Danish speaking family sounds like a golden opportunity to immerse himself. That would in time open up more local opportunities too. I can't say whether decent Danish would make Swedish or dutch easier to pick up too. Hard enough to learn a new language as an adult. So the whole family could go cold turkey on English language TV? Have you got subtitles in danish on as a matter of course? Do you speak danish at home? I know that looking for a new job is a full time job but I think it's worth taking some time out to avail of the free tuition. Frankly makes far more sense than retraining as a plumber 😂

C8H10N4O2 · 23/04/2024 16:25

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 16:05

Appreciate the input…but retraining really isn’t that easy, is it? He is in the film industry, post production….so the whole thing was started by the Hollywood strike and things have still not picked up on the post production side.

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And none of his skills are transferable? Not even team working, collaboration etc into other areas of media and design? What is the plan for adjusting skills to accommodate job losses in this sector due to automation and AI?

You still need a timebox, a plan and particular a method to accelerate language learning, even if that isn't what he wants to do.

PoppyCherryDog · 23/04/2024 16:19

I wouldn’t think you were mad if you got a bigger rental. You can move in a lot quicker than buying and it sounds like the lifestyle a new rental would give you would be beneficial to your whole family.

I suppose it depends how desperate you are with regards to your current rental and how negatively that is impacting your day to day life.

dollahsains · 23/04/2024 16:16

OP we can't comment on whether getting a mortgage is sensible if we know nothing about Denmark! Even in the UK social housing tenants have little need for one. Their rent is usually lower than market rate, secure lifetime tenancy and housing benefit pays a lot of the rent.

What I can comment on though is the instability of your DH industry. Also, I know a couple of people in the industry and AI, post-production jobs being massively outsourced is a big deal. Your DH living in an expensive country is at a massive disadvantage.

It would be unwise to move before he sorted his career.

Don't you qualify for any bigger social housing or government help? I thought Denmark was some sort of Scandinavian utopia.

It would be OK if you could be the main earner but is appears not - you are relying on his unemployment benefit still? It's not a nice extra.

Original poster

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 16:05

C8H10N4O2 · 23/04/2024 15:47

What is the industry sector (roughly)?

Its fine using his insurance to be picky and regroup for a month or two but he is now seven months in and still not taking the language issues seriously. If there is a global dip in his industry and he is also disadvantaged by language he really has to knuckle down with the language and look for backup options career wise. What are the options which allow some transfer of skills? Five years in a country without learning the language will not look great on a CV - that needs to be a priority.

I would not take on the extra rent and cost of moving whilst not having some endpoint to his unemployment. I would look at bunk beds for the DC who are fine sharing at that age plus swapping bedrooms and/or moving his workstation to your bedroom. Using your future mortgage deposit to move seems a risky use of the money.

What is your timebox for finding another job in his preferred industry? The longer he is unemployed the bigger gap he has on the CV - a "lower status" job may not be what he wants permanently but it could be an opportunity to build fluency in the local language whilst seeking other work.

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Appreciate the input…but retraining really isn’t that easy, is it? He is in the film industry, post production….so the whole thing was started by the Hollywood strike and things have still not picked up on the post production side.

OP posts:

LiterallyOnFire · 23/04/2024 16:04

but the idea of giving the kids the other room may not be bad...the thing is though that it is smaller than the current room, so not sure they'd be happier.

Give them the smaller room, away from the reception room. Put your DJ's desk and computer up in your new, larger, glass doored, room. Get decent black out curtains over the glass doors.

Then he is out of their room, they can play a little more independently now that they're older, they may gain a bit of space, and you still have a dark room to sleep in but you will be able to relax properly in the evenings, which is vital.

Play up the novelty factor for the children (a change is as good as a new flat). Maybe get new beds such as cabin beds to delineate personal space and maximise floor room.

Original poster

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 16:01

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Thank you lol…sometimes I feel very angry at him myself to be honest! But then I remember the context. What are my options anyways? Even IF I didn’t love him, and was willing to divorce him, I’d be worse off without him!
mid not have what he contributes in terms of unemployment support right now, would have to pick up all what he currently does at home and would seriously struggle to keep my job as it isn’t very flexible, so even when he works I was relying on him for the majority of drop off and pick ups and certainly all extracurriculars, as he usually works from home so has flexibility.

That being said I do think he needs a bit of a reality check, but I do know first hand the stress of being unemployed as you already feel totally crap about yourself and don’t need your partner blaming and pushing you on top of it…and I’m very grateful he didn’t do that to me back when I was unemployed!

but yes it’s true we likely need to stay put

OP posts:

LambertndButler · 23/04/2024 15:51

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C8H10N4O2 · 23/04/2024 15:47

leftorrightnow · 23/04/2024 15:20

Yes, I have thought that, but his industry earns a lot more than a plumber, and his income support, (yes we are in Denmark, you guessed correctly!) is GBP 1,615 a month (after tax) approx, for another one and a half year, which is more than you make while retraining as a plumber/builder etc...so I will give him until after the summer and if his industry has still not picked up then, I will apply the screws..however, if I was unemployed (as indeed I have been, and for an entire year, while he supported us all and at that time I had no unemployment support) I also would not have appreciated being told to go and retrain as a plumber after having completed a university masters degree and having previously worked in a high profile and well paid job...I waited a year and so did he and then I got a job which I am in now which I love and which pays well!

sorry I realise this is very context specific, which is why I did not include it at first, the unemployment system here is very different to the UK, you pay into a private unemployment insurance while you are working and if you have done that for a year and then become unemployed you get substantial support for two years. You also get offered free courses and internships as part of the deal, which is what he is also doing. People based in the UK are making entirely reasonable suggestions based on the situation there, which is only logic, given MN is a UK based forum!

Edited

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What is the industry sector (roughly)?

Its fine using his insurance to be picky and regroup for a month or two but he is now seven months in and still not taking the language issues seriously. If there is a global dip in his industry and he is also disadvantaged by language he really has to knuckle down with the language and look for backup options career wise. What are the options which allow some transfer of skills? Five years in a country without learning the language will not look great on a CV - that needs to be a priority.

I would not take on the extra rent and cost of moving whilst not having some endpoint to his unemployment. I would look at bunk beds for the DC who are fine sharing at that age plus swapping bedrooms and/or moving his workstation to your bedroom. Using your future mortgage deposit to move seems a risky use of the money.

What is your timebox for finding another job in his preferred industry? The longer he is unemployed the bigger gap he has on the CV - a "lower status" job may not be what he wants permanently but it could be an opportunity to build fluency in the local language whilst seeking other work.

atlaz · 23/04/2024 15:44

Has he not started learning the language at all? I think even with a concerted effort, he's unlikely to develop enough fluency for a job requirement by the time his employment support runs out.

YouveGotAFastCar · 23/04/2024 15:40

I sympathise massively, my husband's industry was basically decimated by Covid.

We've always got our full deposit back, but I don't know what the situation is in Denmark.

From what you've said, I wouldn't change much at all. I'd leave the glass doors, because the room opening out into the living room during the day is really valuable, and you are awake for longer than you're asleep. I'd probably try some big curtains behind the glass doors - we've got some heavy thermal curtains that block a decent amount of noise - and I'd move DH's set up into your room, so the children feel their room is a bit more "theirs".

Otherwise I'd leave it; at least for now.