To be sad neither of my kids are very ambitious

*I'd be very concerned if my child wanted to do an apprenticeship in child care. The pay is low, working conditions often demanding and little scope for a career.
@Astrabees *

I agree with this. Its an admirable career but I would worry she's needlessly limiting herself to a hard life.

Have you spoken to her and shared your concerns?

It sounds like their Nat 5's are more vocationally orientated ? Also Uni degrees unless Medicine, Law Accountancy are no guarantee of graduate level employment.

Hopefully they will be happy and fairly local to you? Also first jobs are not going to define their entire life.

I reflect on my academic and ambitious peers, none remained local and rarely see family, some are in different continents. The local ones seem happy, always posting photos of family meals etc.

I'd be very concerned if my child wanted to do an apprenticeship in child care. The pay is low, working conditions often demanding and little scope for a career. Carpentry is a different matter, prospects there seem good.

My DCs both did apprenticeships and are both now in well-paid jobs in industries which are crying out for workers. Some of DDs friends are still in sixth-form and are very envious of her wealth/no debts. I know we need people with degrees and and certificates, but those people need decent childcare etc. Be proud of your apprentices.

I quite often think of a career change but I’d have to go into something that doesn’t involve qualifications. It’s a real stumbling block that I already have a degree - a degree I essentially done to keep my parents happy. It’s not the 1960s any more. A degree (even mine from a half decent uni/ ‘real’ degree) doesn’t ensure constant well paid employment. I bloody hated it, I often think of the shit advice I got that lead to half heartedly taking the route I did.

I hate working behind a screen all day. Some reason my family think I’ve made it as I sit on meetings or excel all day. I’m not even well paid. I’m now on maternity with no intention of going back. Mediocre wage to be stressed 5 days a week with constant overnight travel.

Just because some who work in childcare work for minimum wage, doesn’t mean everyone does. I know the royal nannies certainly don’t. My friend who started down that route but now is an educational psychologist is definitely not on NWM. What’s the worst thing what will happen if she does an apprenticeship, realise working in a nursery isn’t for her? She’ll have a lot of transferable skills and real work experience.

You will get flamed on here but I can understand how you feel. My kids have all been through various stages of wanting careers such as childcare, dog groomer, vet nurse and others I can't remember. I've been trying to tell them to visualise the life they want and how they can achieve that life, such as if they work in childcare which is low paid, then they might find it enjoyable but they certainly won't be able to buy a house by themselves or finance much international travel or have an expensive car etc.

It's very difficult as life is so expensive nowadays. There is a huge amount of value in having a career you love but if that means you will be living paycheck to paycheck then it might cancel out the job satisfaction.

So yes the childcare apprenticeship would worry me but I think there is a huge amount of potential in the joinery apprenticeship.

I wonder if your parents thought the same about you? And how you would have felt about that.

Beware of letting this attitude show to your children - I had a mother with a similar view about my career choices and it caused considerable damage to our relationship (although I'm sure she would have just said she 'only wanted the best for me'). It was always funny to me that she wouldn't want us to consider her as 'less than' for not wanting and/or building a high-flying career, but somehow I was failing for exactly the same? Make it make sense.

It sounds like your children have been proactive in choosing these paths rather than just falling into them, so the best thing you can do is accept them for who they are and support their choices. They may not end up in those jobs in the long run, but the feeling of being supported and having someone believe in them will stay with them forever.

Joinery is good money these days, tried getting a joiner recently in Scotland? My sons friend did his apprenticeship in joinery the other in plumbing both doing really well and both earning a lot more than him (welding apprenticeship)

op, your kids are doing what they want to do…they have made their choices and tbh as long as they are happy and know what they want to do I’d be happy with that. I have 4 boys all clever but not sure if any will go to university and ‘achieve’ academically, that also doesn’t equate to having money as plenty graduates aren’t on big money either or are even doing a job related to their degree. I’ve got one son heading for specialist schooling so likely won’t work etc when older but if he’s happy and healthy then you can only be there for them.

If they're both choosing to do something that they will enjoy that will give them enough money to live off, I don't see the problem. Many "ambitious" people end up exhausted and miserable because not everyone can be a millionaire by 30, for example (extreme example I know but YSWIM).

If they do go down these routes then encourage good business skills. Joinery is fine but if he gets a shoulder injury he's screwed unless he has learnt how to network and expand his business so he becomes a manager, this also allows for career longevity.

Same with childcare. I'm guessing you earn more in the management positions. Or you can charge more as a childminder if you have a good sense of how to market yourself.

There’s a shortage coming up of (they predict) a million jobs in trades! Flip me a good joiner who goes on and becomes a master builder running projects with a good reputation could easily make six figures a year. My builder drives a far, far nicer car than we do!

And childcare - nannying? £50k a year in london? She could probably name her price as a British nanny in UAE/Qatar similar. There’s a great AMA from a British nanny in the Middle East if you want to look it up. She could do the US J1 before that and work in an American summer camp, she could eventually live in for a wealthy family and save her salary - it can be a fantastic way to see the world! My friends in london talk about ‘the nanny’ in hushed voices: what does she need, how can they make her happy - they know their ability to go to work depends on her.

Fifteen years ago I heard a story of a hedge fund manager who loved her maternity nanny (supposed to be short term as ££££) so much she just kept her on at £70k pa.

If you are bright, honest, driven and hardworking you can make a fortune doing almost anything if you are prepared to be very strategic about it. If they are turning down £60k of student debt from degrees they don’t want to do, then it sounds like they are already on their way.

I think it’s a mistake not to stay on and finish school. With those grades they are capable of doing highers and if they decide to go to uni at a later date, they will need highers.

As others have said, I’d be less worried about the joinery as there are far more oppportunities to advance, set up a business, and eventually earn good money.

In childcare it will always be hard work for minimum wage with little scope for advancement.

Has she thought about primary teaching, child psychology, speech therapy , or something like that, where she could still work with children but earn a better living?

If she stayed and got her highers she could even do the childcare for a while but she’d have the option of applying to uni in a couple of years if she wanted.

My nephew is a joiner (qualified boat builder but generally joinery these days). He has an amazing quality of life, earns really well, sets his own hours, takes his dog with him everywhere. He is so skilled and has won awards for his work on listed buildings and churches.

I wish more young people would consider trades as a career. I worked in higher education for a few years and it was depressing to see the waste of potential of young people doing expensive but often low value degrees.

Bear in mind that I'm not 100% on the Scottish system but my understanding is highers = equivalent to a levels?
So they are both planning on leaving school at 16 to do apprenticeships.

In which case i agree with you -15/16 is so young to decide what they want to do with the rest of their lives. It's fine to think "ah working with kids is fun and sweet" at 16 when the most you've done is babysit for a few hours, less so when you're 40 and knackered from bending over for 25 years, your classmates are earning well while you're still on minimum wage.

If they have the grades and abilities higher qualifications will give them so many more opportunities. If at 18 they then decide to do the same apprenticeships -great. Well done to them for knowing what they want and successfully getting apprenticeships. But in 5/10/20 years if they then want to change jobs they have their highers as a back up, rather than potentially having to take them. If your dd decided she wanted to become a teacher for example, presumably she'd have to do her highers first before going to uni?

So 5 years studying and not earning a wage while she potentially has a family to support rather than 3.

Someone said "Who is to say that your DD won't end up running a chain of childcare centres?" She absolutely could. But for all the "intermediate" steps like just become promoted to supervisor, manager etc she will likely be at a disadvantage compared to someone who had the same experience PLUS qualifications. If she wants to own her own chain she might want to do some sort of business degree or qualification which again might want highers as a starting point before you can even apply.

It's a lot easier to just get these qualifications aged 17/18 while your parents are still supporting you than go back to college in your 30s/40s. If they then still decide to do apprenticeships absolutely be proud of them.

He’ll make more money as a joiner or other trade in years to come as AI eats up jobs like solicitors accountants judges etc!! No robot can saw wood and walk around.

I think it’s still the case that many children end up in jobs quite similar (status/sector/pay) to their parents. You’re their main role models and examples of what’s possible.

With apprenticeships they’ll likely find themselves better off more quickly than some University graduates!

Read my post again. I said ‘Life has lots of twists and turns, they’re so young, lots could change yet.’

I wouldn’t class a teacher, social worker and nurse as well paid though. I’ve been a teacher and a TA. Poor pay, poor conditions.

Its a lot easier to be successful if you go into something slightly below your abilities where you can stand out, shine and reach a high level in that area than it is to stretch to your limits just to be another adequate, mediocre performer.

If they are clever they can both have a fantastic self employed career ahead of them in those areas.

Joiner is fine but childcare is very poorly paid - unless she is planning to be a private nanny. I would encourage your daughter to look at other options that involve working with children or education if that is what interests her.

It's so hard for young people to know what they want to do in future. On the one hand apprenticeships are very much career focused at the moment and many people (like me) who went to uni in part because it was expected may not use their degree as much as they thought they would. On the other you don't want your children to sell themselves short either. I think nowadays it is common to have more than one career and they can always retrain in future, I'm studying a degree apprenticeship and will qualify in my mid 30's

YABU. Why go to university and rack up life crippling debt for vanity reasons. Your son may make a fortune from construction and your daughter will be doing something of undoubted social value. Be proud.

disagree about childcare... just because a young person does a 'chaildcare apprenticeship' doesnt mean all they will do for the rest of their lives is sing the wheels on the bus and change dirty nappys.

a qualification in chidlcare can lead to many great and well paid things, teacher, social worker, nurse im sure the list is endless... but this qualification has to start somewhere