To be sad neither of my kids are very ambitious

They are 15 not 25. It sounds like they want to align their interests with their future careers, which is very wise. Be supportive of their efforts. The apprenticeships should help them build up their skills and confidence.

*past not pay

Joinery can be relatively low skilled or can be very highly skilled and sought after
I am a (many)degree educated construction professional and I can definitely say that more academic "ambitious" routes definitely don't mean you will earn more (experience)
Construction has many levels within it and I value a good joiner as a skilled craftsman which many clients are willing to pay for - quite often a lot of money.

However a joiner can also be the guy who works for a mass house builder and is a bit shit and gets paid an ok wage with less stress and experience

They are both joiners yet they are not equal careers

Your kids have a plan which is not bad at that age - I also have a 15yo
No plan but is doing ALevels in maths, physics & CS just because he enjoys them.... no ideas pay that
Which is also ok.

My step son is a carpenter and has his own company and earns very well.

Your daughter could run her own business too.

If they have brains they will do well.

Childcare apprenticeship - so looking after the future generation and keeping them safe isn’t of value? Do we want unintelligent people looking after our kids for 7+ hours a day? Do we really devalue childcare that much?

Its so important, but is often not as well paid as it deserves. I wouldn’t want my kids to choose it purely because I don’t want them worrying about money in the future.

These sorts of opinions really irritate me. Amazing how snobby people will be about those who get their hands dirty and look down upon them - but we need these people .

Childcare apprenticeship - so looking after the future generation and keeping them safe isn’t of value? Do we want unintelligent people looking after our kids for 7+ hours a day? Do we really devalue childcare that much?

Joinery - a decent trades person is like a unicorn. If it was that easy to do then more of us would do it. I’ve never met a poor trades person once they’re established. We keep having to import trades (butchers and tree surgeons are in low supply for example) - we don’t seem to have a need for more philosophy degrees.

Most trades require continual learning and education. A lot of apprentices will then do advanced apprenticeships which is equivalent to a degree. It’s not an easy way out nor for the stupid. It sounds like both you and your DH are hands on types hence your vocations, maybe that’s the same for your kids.

Frankly, I’d rather a trade in this economy as they’re the ones still making money as their jobs often have a purpose (most office jobs are non jobs) and they have more ability to open a business of their own in the future.

If you wanted them to go to uni for a specific career I’d be more empathetic.

I know it’s hard not to, but give them space to decide for themselves. SS started an apprenticeship after Highers, he was doing well and enjoying it but Covid put an end to it. Much to our surprise he then started applying for scholarships, having shown no inclination to go to uni before, is now absolutely thriving and talking of a Masters when he graduates next year!
Both of their jobs have good potential and would be really valuable experience even if they did change their mind later on (I remember the mature students at uni as always being the clever ones with first class honours while the rest of us got pissed up!)

Having at least enough to not be constantly stressed about bills and have enough to not have to panic if something breaks, doesn’t mean you have to be motivated by money.

Money issues create stress in life, there’s no point pretending otherwise. Living on minimum wage or not much above it isn’t fun.

On the fence with this one!

I would ensure they have a clear idea of saving and investing - if nothing else! Physical jobs are very hard once you get older… saving for a pension is key imo.

I'd have a chat with them about their long term ambitions and their reasons for their apprenticeships. I'd explain the need to keep and open mindset and to continue learning and studying even when an adult in work. Let them know that you don't have to do the same job forever as you go through life gathering more skills.

I'd also have a very honest chat about money: what their salary is likely to be, how it is/isn't likely to go up over time compared with other jobs. How much living costs are and how much you'd need to save for a deposit and earn for a mortgage. Lastly, I'd tell them my own finances (or the salary range for my role if you don't want to be too specific) and show them actual bills etc. I'd give them as much knowledge as I could.

If you have a look on my job Scotland. Look at council vacancies. You’ll see the wage there. Not £11 an hour, roughly £15/16 an hour.. Many Early Years practitioners will go on to do further qualifications, including the BA. Alongside a good salary, the working conditions within are very good, annual leave, sick pay, mat leave etc.

Talk to them now and explain the pros and cons. They might not realise the limits on earning potential. Make sure they have a clear picture of things before they make a decision. I agree with PP to try and convince them to do A Levels first.

Maybe they both want hands-on/people-focused jobs, rather than risk spending their lives sitting alone at a computer screen?

Your son could one day run his own joinery business – that takes some brains and ambition.

Don't be obtuse.

If you are bright and have other choices available to you, why would you settle for £22/25k a year for the rest of your life.

Depends on how much you care about money. The happiest person I know is also the poorest. Money doesn’t motivate everyone.

What makes you think they are not ambitious?

Have a look at some of the high end kitchens by Tom Howley etc, look at the cost and then rethink that joinery isn’t a stepping stone to making mega bucks!!!

Life won’t be very enjoyable on a low income.

This is so, so true.

Do you have a link for this? A brief look at indeed showed the majority of ELP vacancies at around £11 per hour.

Plus people seem to be missing the fact that yes, lucrative childcare jobs exist but they are also very competitive. The expensive nannies can change that much because they have additional skills/qualifications. If you are wealthy enough to afford a £70k nanny are you going to choose the applicant who left school at 16 or the one who has a degree in childhood psychology/music/modern languages (which they can teach to your child)?

🙄 Would anyone really want their child to go into a career that often has bad pay and conditions, for them to struggle to pay their bills in the future?

DH and I are both professionals who were academically able children, both educated to PG standard and have ‘good jobs’ (ie. soul destroying but supposedly prestigious). We both hate our jobs and when we were renovating a house we realised we were using more than half our monthly income solely to pay the carpenter who is living life to the full and spends a quarter of the year on holiday.

As both your kids are clever and motivated they’ll likely rise faster, go further and with more world-wide opportunities in the paths they’ve chosen than the ones we have. As you probably know Scotland has a serious shortage of skilled tradespeople, and your daughter could end up very well paid if she takes the right path and keeps progressing, our 40 y.o nursery manager did her first degree after having worked for twenty years and was at that point on £35k p.a. Presumably there was more to be earned, hence the degree?

Your boy sounds like he knows what he’s doing; design abilities + mathematically adept brain = master carpenter (and write your own pay-check). Also, they’re only young and may well go back to education in some vocational form before they’re done, if that matters.

PS I fucking wish my DS would consider a trade, he’s predicted As for a few of his Highers but wants to be an artist, has no practical abilities whatsoever, and needs fired out of a cannon to get himself to school on time of a morning. Can yours spare some get-up-and-go?

As someone working for a company selling timber and making gorgeous bespoke joinery projects, we will always want enthusiastic and talented joiners! I would be happy that at 15 they've both found something that interests them.

It's natural for your children to gradually become independent and break away into their own people that do things that you disagree with
And it's normal to be sad about it as you feel invested, of course!
But you are doing the right thing letting them live their life and being there to give them whatever support they need.

Why ? Do children not deserve to be looked after by trained professionals or as I said before just as long as its someone else.