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For thinking that a child who is different isn’t necessarily neurodiverse

129 replies

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 15:25

Hi just hoping for some perspective.

My DH has severe anxiety, specifically health anxiety, and a tendency to worry to the point of fixation about his own health and that of our kids. I can’t count on both hands how many things he’s diagnosed himself or our children with. The latest is an obsession that our DS is autistic or neurodiverse in some way. I couldn’t disagree more and think that while he has some funny little quirks, he’s essentially a happy and healthy 6 year old.

The facts:

DS is doing ok at school. He’s on track for most of the things academically. Bit behind with writing but not worryingly so

Happy and excited to do new things and go to new places. He isn’t upset by routine changes or transitions etc

Likes playing with friends, going to parties, going on holiday etc. Embraces new experiences

No sensory issues of note

Eats pretty much everything, not fussy

Kind and empathetic (most of the time)

Enjoys jokes and being the class clown

Doesn’t meltdown or tantrum to any major extent

Enjoys school

DH concerns;

He can be very excitable - doesn’t take much to fill his cup.

He has a habit of running and jumping about, sometimes waving his arms about and sometimes throwing himself on the couch. It’s sometimes accompanied by explosion noises etc. He does it a lot at home and I think he does it more when tired or overstimulated. DH thinks he’s stimming whereas I think he’s just expressing his enjoyment/happiness and it feels nice to do it. Possibly helping him to process whatever he’s thinking about at the time

Quite often chats away to himself, sometimes singing, sometimes reenacting something from his favourite show etc. Sometimes just repeating a new or interesting word. Sometimes just whispering nonsense

Likes to make up silly words and names

He has a few close friends and isn’t that interested in branching out or making new friends instead preferring to stick with those he already has. School have noted this independently of us. They haven’t said it’s a concern but they did say they might put them in different classes next year

Can sometimes be a bit withdrawn/unsociable with some kids, especially those who are a bit full on. He has a hearing loss so noisy kids can be a bit too much for him at times. Which makes me laugh as he is so noisy and excitable himself but doesn’t embrace it in other kids. But when he’s with his best friend, he’s the loudest and silliest of the lot. So I think it’s a confidence thing, particularly considering the hearing issue

Occasionally he appears not to want make eye contact when someone is up close. I don’t think he has a problem with eye contact at all and think it’s normal for a 6 year old who is being told off and told to look at the person telling him off not to want to do so. I’d say as a general rule he makes great eye contact, even with people he doesn’t know all that well and with adults and kids. Sometimes I think he feels a bit uncomfortable when someone is in his face and asking him questions and he sometimes zones out a bit but I think that’s totally normal. DH disagrees

Please can someone help. I feel like it’s destroying our marriage and it’s damaging his relationship with our DS. He seems unable to relax and enjoy spending time with him without analyzing every little thing he does and attributing it to a self diagnosis of autism. I can’t seem to get through to him. He wants us to push for some kind of referral whereas I feel that would set a hare running that is completely unnecessary and potentially damaging to the well being of our happy and healthy child.

im planning to share the answers from this thread with him in an effort to help him
see things more clearly and in the hope it might encourage him to seek help for his overwhelming anxiety.

Everything I’ve written has been seen and agreed by him (apart from obviously my slant on it).

OP posts:
Cleggin · 21/04/2024 17:29

DH just refuses to see that he has a problem, he has always been able to justify his concerns in his own mind but to anyone looking on, those justifications are bat shit. It’s not just me at the end of their tether. He’s lost friends, family are despairing of him. He copes well at work but I fear it’s only a matter of time before these feelings and thoughts intrude there too.

OP posts:
Blessedbethefruitz · 21/04/2024 17:25

Your ds sounds like mine, aged 5. My ds also has some sensory issues around only wearing oversized clothes, and food (but has a medical history around food and allergies). I did have him assessed, a 2 hour set of tests with nhs, where they said that while he seems busy and sensory seeking (always moving, jumping, fidgeting), they feel he's mentally under stimulated (don't think gifted, but years ahead on numbers and problem solving). They said ultimately they think he's NT and would be very surprised to see us again. I feel he's an introvert as pp suggested for you, he likes who he likes. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm also anxious like your dh, which is why he was assessed. Ds has so many physical health issues though that I feel a need to be on constant alert with him. I don't feel that way about our very healthy dd aged 2. I can see where he's coming from with your ds, especially given the advice on here that anything sensory is ND. I do however take meds for anxiety/depression and make sure to meet my own needs.

It's awful to generalise, but lots of men seem in disbelief over mental health conditions. My dp didn't understand that they have physical impacts, that you can't just snap out of 'feeling blue' until he started having panic attacks in his 40s. Sounds like your dh needs some help.

Psychologymam · 21/04/2024 17:25

GardenGeorgie · 21/04/2024 17:05

Be careful when reading comments on this thread - there is no such qualification as a ‘child psychologist.’

Yes - I’m a qualified psychologist who commented and I noted this too from another commenter - very frustrating.

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 17:25

KezzaMucklowe · 21/04/2024 17:14

This sounds really challenging. I think the problem here is that people are hyper focusing on the situation with your son where as for you this just one in a long saga of problems.
Have you spoken to him about the impact it is having on your relationship?

There's no reason you can't speak to the teacher /senco regardless.

Yes exactly. I’m not closed off to the idea that DS could be autistic (although I don’t think he is) but I am mentally and emotionally drained by the constant battle to get through to DH that he should seek help and his constant refusal to do so

OP posts:
fieldsofbutterflies · 21/04/2024 17:15

Some of the things you mention could be signs of autism, but nobody on here could tell you for certain (nor should they try to).

I'm autistic and a few the items on your list remind me of how I was a child.

KezzaMucklowe · 21/04/2024 17:14

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:57

I’m not closed at all. I want to help and support DH and I want to help and support DS if it transpires that help is needed. But right now, I am about ready to walk away from my marriage after 15 years of supporting someone through various Ed ‘diagnoses’ of multiple cancers, neurological conditions, cerebral payday, genetic disorders - the list is endless. I’m exhausted and spent. DH cannot see that his constant fixations are damaging to our family. I have asked him constantly to get help for his anxiety (or whatever you want to call it, so I’m not accused of being a hypocrite and diagnosing someone with something). I have spent countless nights (and days) counseling him, reasoning with him, cajoling and sympathizing with him, only to have the same conversations repeated night after night. Right now, if the consensus is that my son does warrant assessment, I’m open to that and obviously want and will do what’s best for him, but I do not want to pour fuel on the fire of someone who I’ve been through this with time and again if I don’t need to

This sounds really challenging. I think the problem here is that people are hyper focusing on the situation with your son where as for you this just one in a long saga of problems.
Have you spoken to him about the impact it is having on your relationship?

There's no reason you can't speak to the teacher /senco regardless.

ALovelyCupOfNameChange · 21/04/2024 17:12

My ds is different to the other children. I used to sit there at nursery and school events wondering why he wasn’t like the other boys. He is now a teenager.

he’s just him. He’s not ND although most of his small close circle are. He’s happy in himself, he is still quirky and different, almost alternative in the way he presents. He does well at school. And is happy.

AhBiscuits · 21/04/2024 17:08

He sounds a lot like my DS (6) and I have no concerns about him at all, nor have his teachers.

Corksoles · 21/04/2024 17:07

I know you haven't asked this, OP, but your husband is being fucking unreasonable if he has taken up chunks of your family life worrying and obsessing about conditions that aren't there AND not seeking help for what is clearly health anxiety.

I have had crippling health anxiety - it's awful. I would not share it with my family for love nor money. And there are many different and some successful ways of treating it. It's monumentally selfish and self-defeating to not try to access help on his part. You can self refer to talking therapies on the NHS. Should be a link on your GP website.

GardenGeorgie · 21/04/2024 17:05

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:14

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts. Surely as much as autism is a spectrum so is being NT? Don’t we all have our own little differences and quirks and that’s what makes us different? He is happy and healthy and so why does anything need to change? Obviously if he was unhappy or struggling that would be very different. Husband just wants answers and clarity so that support will be in place if ever needed.

Be careful when reading comments on this thread - there is no such qualification as a ‘child psychologist.’

RandomButtons · 21/04/2024 17:04

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:57

I’m not closed at all. I want to help and support DH and I want to help and support DS if it transpires that help is needed. But right now, I am about ready to walk away from my marriage after 15 years of supporting someone through various Ed ‘diagnoses’ of multiple cancers, neurological conditions, cerebral payday, genetic disorders - the list is endless. I’m exhausted and spent. DH cannot see that his constant fixations are damaging to our family. I have asked him constantly to get help for his anxiety (or whatever you want to call it, so I’m not accused of being a hypocrite and diagnosing someone with something). I have spent countless nights (and days) counseling him, reasoning with him, cajoling and sympathizing with him, only to have the same conversations repeated night after night. Right now, if the consensus is that my son does warrant assessment, I’m open to that and obviously want and will do what’s best for him, but I do not want to pour fuel on the fire of someone who I’ve been through this with time and again if I don’t need to

It’s quite clear it’s your husband who needs assessment not your son. Your son sounds pretty fine to be honest. If he’s happy I wouldn’t worry.

You clearly have a problem in your marriage though. He is refusing help - I think you probably need to give him an ultimatum, get help or it’s end of the road. He has no formal diagnosis but it’s quite clear he’s obsessive about health issues, and that can be projected onto children.

Maryamlouise · 21/04/2024 17:00

Having just been through the diagnosis process with our 7 year old (and having all the same worries as you about whether it was ND or just different) I would say there is no harm in investigating further as our DS enjoyed the play sessions/observations so I think your son won't really notice and if it reassures your DH and stops him obsessing about it then surely that is a good thing.

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:57

I’m not closed at all. I want to help and support DH and I want to help and support DS if it transpires that help is needed. But right now, I am about ready to walk away from my marriage after 15 years of supporting someone through various Ed ‘diagnoses’ of multiple cancers, neurological conditions, cerebral payday, genetic disorders - the list is endless. I’m exhausted and spent. DH cannot see that his constant fixations are damaging to our family. I have asked him constantly to get help for his anxiety (or whatever you want to call it, so I’m not accused of being a hypocrite and diagnosing someone with something). I have spent countless nights (and days) counseling him, reasoning with him, cajoling and sympathizing with him, only to have the same conversations repeated night after night. Right now, if the consensus is that my son does warrant assessment, I’m open to that and obviously want and will do what’s best for him, but I do not want to pour fuel on the fire of someone who I’ve been through this with time and again if I don’t need to

OP posts:
SummerInSun · 21/04/2024 16:50

Your DS sounds like an entirely normal 6 year old to me. (But I've no qualifications)

HelpMeUnpickThis · 21/04/2024 16:49

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:14

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts. Surely as much as autism is a spectrum so is being NT? Don’t we all have our own little differences and quirks and that’s what makes us different? He is happy and healthy and so why does anything need to change? Obviously if he was unhappy or struggling that would be very different. Husband just wants answers and clarity so that support will be in place if ever needed.

@Cleggin when i read your opening post i came on ready to ride at dawn for you.

I will start by saying that living with someone who has health anxiety is ABSOLUTELY DRAINING.

However having read your subsequent posts, uou do come across as quite defensive and closed.

My suggestion would be that the 2 issues are not mutually exclusive:
Your DH should seek the help he needs - no question. For himself.
You should aslo try to take his concerns into account, talk to DS’ teachers and be a bit more open.

Flossieskeeper · 21/04/2024 16:17

I would move the thread to chat or sen—people love to be contrary on mumsnet.
the other problem is that mumsnet is not diagnostic .

I have no idea from what snippets you say as to whether ds has asd or not. I second the suggestion to talk to school re any concerns and careful watching.
Is he getting some monitoring and support woth the hearing loss? It might be worth having a chat with those professionals too. Given that he has hearing loss it’s not surprising that he is unaware of his own noisiness . It would concern me that he isn’t keeping up re reading- from bitter experience don’t leave this or allow your self to be fobbed off. The curriculum moves fast and they lag behind further. It sounds like he does need support with this.

In conclusion it sounds like dh has concerns which may well be valid however, whether he has the right diagnosis is debatable. ds sounds lovely but given his existing hearing loss I would be pro active now in making sure he is getting supported by the school and the nhs for this for him to reach his potential.

Leonarda89 · 21/04/2024 16:17

Anewuser · 21/04/2024 16:05

I’m not disagreeing with you but I’ll love to see the figures in ten years time. When we look around primary school classes, we see about 25% of ND children.

So many children get referred for assesment by schools who do no meet criteria for diagnosis (one of the reasons waiting lists are so long). Often the difficulties are due to trauma, learning difficulties, or simply normal individual differences in kids who struggle with one size fits all education system. I think the problem is that now any difficulty or difference is put down to ND. Symptoms need to be pervasive and significantly impairing to meet criteria for diagnosis and that doesn't sound like the case for OP's child.

Psychologymam · 21/04/2024 16:16

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:00

Hi would you mind elaborating on which things you think are possible red flags? By PM if you prefer. Thanks

I didn’t say there were any red flags? I said that some of what you describe could fit but equally it may be understood in the other contexts that you’ve mentioned (hearing loss) etc. no one will be able to tell you for definite here (and if they do they’re acting unethically!) you could ask your husband if you chat to school and they have no concerns would this satisfy him but if they do, you’ll explore further? Also might be worth checking with him what he think it will achieve - does he think your child needs support or help in a specific area?

Cleggin · 21/04/2024 16:14

Padfootnprongs · 21/04/2024 15:57

Child psychologist here.
Reading what you’ve said, he sounds perfectly typical to me.

No child copes perfectly with everything all of the time. That’s why they’re children- they’re still developing. Fine for his social skills to need a bit of encouragement and for him to show his boisterous side. That’s just the way he is for now. He will be different again in a year’s time.

Ask your husband what he thinks a diagnosis would achieve or change for the better? The fact is that if he is enjoying and coping well with life right now, it doesn’t sound like having him assessed would bring any added positives, other than to satisfy your DH’s curiosity / anxiety. That’s not a good enough reason to assess I’m afraid.

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts. Surely as much as autism is a spectrum so is being NT? Don’t we all have our own little differences and quirks and that’s what makes us different? He is happy and healthy and so why does anything need to change? Obviously if he was unhappy or struggling that would be very different. Husband just wants answers and clarity so that support will be in place if ever needed.

OP posts:
Anewuser · 21/04/2024 16:08

Chewitzzz · 21/04/2024 16:07

You have no idea if those children would meet threshold.

You’re absolutely right, I just think there’ll be a much higher rate of ND in ten years.

Yummymummy2020 · 21/04/2024 16:08

Yes, your dh sounds like it certainly warrants a closer look. I’m surprised a SENCO above said there were no signs, there does seem to be a few but equally it could be nothing. I think where there is doubt, it is worth revisiting because at the end of the day, the earlier anything is spotted the better. A previous poster said about her child plummeting at secondary, this is very common and it can be tough to get the supports needed in the timeframe to really provide any help that might be needed down the line. I agree with the poster that said to meet the teacher at a separate time without a line of parents waiting, you might get better information that way and you can say exactly what your husbands concerns are.
regardless of your dh being anxious, he could also be right in this case.

Chewitzzz · 21/04/2024 16:07

Anewuser · 21/04/2024 16:05

I’m not disagreeing with you but I’ll love to see the figures in ten years time. When we look around primary school classes, we see about 25% of ND children.

You have no idea if those children would meet threshold.

Anewuser · 21/04/2024 16:05

Chewitzzz · 21/04/2024 15:41

The painter that said more people are NT is very wrong. Only 0.8% have autism in the Uk.

I’m not disagreeing with you but I’ll love to see the figures in ten years time. When we look around primary school classes, we see about 25% of ND children.

Chewitzzz · 21/04/2024 16:02

The thing is if he’s coping he may not get a diagnosis now but things can change hugely when you have autism and children who cope as children can struggle massively as teens. Mine were coping at 6, they have dramatically not coped as teens. I wish it had been picked up sooner as I think earlier diagnosis would have helped massively and reduced or stopped what happened in their teens.

NameChangeCass · 21/04/2024 16:00

You just sound a bit fixed re your husband being wrong and judgemental to the point of diagnosing him when you are criticising him diagnosing your ds

this. I think you are being quite unfair to your DH. Sounds like he just has a different opinion on this than you? You may be in denial. From what you have written, it sounds like there are quite a few potential markers for ASD, but no one on this thread can possibly know without knowing your DS. Is there any harm in getting him assessed if your DH is worried?