To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

100% this

I completely agree with you. I became invisible when I got into my 50s and it was loud and clear that ageism was an issue when during reorganisation, a tranche of senior managers was recruited, with the oldest of them being 45. Several already senior managers in their 50s were sidelined, people who were respected and knew their stuff, in favour of less qualified people who really don't!

I can't stand the bullshit any more either. Sick of managers who think they are reinventing the wheel!

Public messaging about healthy living has been severely lacking, and downright misleading, for generations imo. For women in particular, how many have actually properly learnt how to lift weights for example? Even if they've been active throughout their lives, they've likely spent it doing aerobics, or running or yoga. They're great of course and will help a lot, but they're usually not enough to keep frailty at bay, unless the yoga they're doing is very strenuous, the average leisure centre class isn't going to cut the mustard. Many will have severely weakened bones if they bought into the diet culture of the 80s-2000s, thinking they were being healthy. There's lots we know now about the importance of maintaining muscle and bone density as we age, and younger women will probably fare much better as they age as a result. But you can hardly blame women in their 60s for being frail, they were actively discouraged from doing the things that would prevent frailty when they were younger.

The problem is ‘repetitive’ work, such as keyboards. There are many jobs where you use your arms, but without the repetitive work that working with a keyboard brings. I use a computer in my work, and have for years. I find part way through my day I have to rest my wrists as they ache. But I’m perfectly fine with other tasks.

No, ‘most people’ are not obese due to predisposing illnesses. Some might, but the majority of people who are obese are that way due to over eating. I’ve been there, and yo-yo’d with my weight most of my life. I have an unhealthy relationship with food, and it’s my responsibility to correct that. Eat less, eat healthily with the odd treat, and you will not be obese.

A job for which you do not need your arms, yes there are a lot of those.

Retrain? Something that doesn’t require repetitively working with your arms/wrists.

And if anyone is in anyone about how genuine was the sentiment in Sunaks’ speech, here’s food for thought

https://apple.news/Az8CCgSVWQte4Zr532wTTVA

Looking after yourself is well and good but does not guarantee that you will remain healthy! Plenty of health conditions are hereditary. DH's manager, healthy eater, fit, not overweight, runner, had a stroke in his early 50s. Followed by the discovery he has a hole in his heart. One of my closest friends, pretty much vegan, barely drinks, swims, runs, hikes, but she gets really ill very often. Just a couple of examples. You can do all the right things, but luck plays a huge part.

You may not always be so smug.

@vivainsomnia You sound like my cunt of an ex boss who stated loudly and regularly that "only weak people get sick". He was very fit, went to the gym, didn't smoke, drink or eat unhealthy foods. He was dead at 59 after having a quadruple heart bypass. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke to be honest.

I have had an easy life, good food, little stress etc but am absolutely knackered at 53, the difference from 45 to 55 seems to me to be night and day. Most of my friends feel the same. The thought of a late night feels me with dread. We are all busy working and bringing up teenagers, you just do run out of energy ime. There is the slight caveat that I think the pandemic knocked the stuffing out of a lot of us and many are dealing with quite serious mental health issues in their teens or with ageing parents.

I won't get any pensions until I am 67 so am going to have to keep going as long as I can and save furiously to make up the time between my stopping work and drawing on pensions. The pensions I do have aren't generous enough for me to take them early and survive but they will top up the state pension.

So it seems entirely credible that there people are on long term sick. I may or may not be ill, but I am fairly sure I won't be working full time at 66. Btw I won't be entitled to benefits as have some savings, which is absolutely as it should be.

Yep. Covid is responsible in the increase for under 35s imo.

I work in a clinic where there is a good chunk of people who attend with chronic ill health who’s problems would largely be solved if the retirement age was as it was.

Life expectancy has only increased substantially ie beyond 80, in the last 30-40 years.

in some parts of the country the average age of a health life expectancy is 54. After that it’s ill health until death. The government is trying to have no or very limited public services - those that helped keep the nation healthy, is passively encouraging low pay and shoddy housing, Factors we have know for years adversely affect health. Now they are shouting the population is too sick. It’s a case of chicken coming home to roost from the policies of the last 14 years on the back of huge inequality and an aging population.

@Themaghag mate, I know all about that. My very healthy mum died suddenly of cancer at 46 leaving us in poverty and chaos. I know.

What I am trying to counter here is posters saying things are inevitably physically bad in your 40s and 50s. I know a lot of men and women at that age in the best shape of their lives. Ageing and some of the issues that come with it is inevitable, ageing badly doesn't have to be.

imust use it or lose it is very true. I'm also in an office. So many young colleagues drive in, sit at their desks during lunch and do no exercise. It makes my arteries twitch just thinking about it.

We are dead healthy in my family but heart attacks still get us. I'm trying to delay mine and be in good shape for the inevitable recovery.

where does the money come from to pay for the benefits? Benefits are supposed to be a safety net for the most vulnerable, not a lifestyle choice.

Yes, I agree, it's not the whole picture but it certainly doesn't help. I have a colleague (teacher), in their early 60s who is really too ill to work a full timetable, but they're not ill enough to take ill health retirement. They came into teaching in their 50's, so their retirement age is 66. Navigating this as a school is a nightmare. Reducing their timetable but paying them the same wage just increases work for others, who don't get any extra pay. The teacher has been offered a proper switch to part-time, with the associated drop in pay, but they have declined as they can't afford it. If they'd started teaching pre 2007, they'd be retired at 60, so this scenario is quite a new one for schools to deal with. There doesn't seem to be an adequate solution because that requires money and there is none. This will happen more and more, we haven't lived in a world with 66 year old teachers, nurses etc, and ime it is not being planned for at all.

You have no idea. And tbh I didn't until I started living it. It's not just your body that gets knackered, your brain does too.

Brains deteriorate if they aren't used and stimulated.

And again, the right diet and exercise keeps brains healthy.

Many of the oldest people (who are working in their 70s and 80s) are academics and senior doctors who are using their brains daily.

I think it's true that even in professional jobs the older you are the less sharp technically you are. This is in part why you move into management. I am not doing something as difficult technically as I used to, but I have the strategy to get the best out of my team. If I ever have to do intense technical work now it feels hideous. I can, but I am just not as swift as I was decades earlier. I find myself tired out by it.

I can't speak for the private sector because I haven't worked in it for many years, but poor management and bullying is endemic in the public sector, and contributes hugely to LTS. I'm in a team of 16, and at any given time, there will be at least 2 off on LTS, usually due to stress at work and nobody gives a shit. Turnover is crazy too.

This is so depressing.

I am post state retirement age and still working part time, for myself in a small business.

Maybe the real problems are that as a nation we are the sickest in Europe because of obesity and other lifestyle factors, many from choice.

To write people off as being unable to work in their 60s is actually deplorable.
One of my parents - my father- was forced to retire at 65 as that was how it was then and he hated it. He wanted to carry on.

I appreciate some people have work that is manual, but equally they should also try to plan ahead and find other work as they get older.

Expecting other people to pay for your lack of work is just wrong unless you are very very ill and cannot do any work.

I am a similar age to your parents and do an admin job. You talk about the physical work being difficult at our age but seem to think you could continue doing admin work until late 60s.

You have no idea. And tbh I didn't until I started living it. It's not just your body that gets knackered, your brain does too.

I struggle with the work I have been doing for nearly 20 years. My mind struggles with new processes, and even the ones I used to be able to do in my sleep.

It's a nightmare.

poor lifestyle choice is the main issue
No, the #1 risk factor for work limiting health condition is age, not lifestyle. Most people who are obese are obese due to a mobility limiting disability that they have acquired. The Tories reverse this causation and have convinced people that for the majority of people, poor choices leading to obesity causes the mobility limiting disability. This isn’t true, for the majority the dusability that limits mobility comes first, followed by obesity due to inability to be mobile.

They’ve done the same switcheroo with their claims that work makes you healthy when all the evidence shows is that being healthy makes you more likely to be in work. (Duh).

Spot on @susiedaisy1912