To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

Please tell us in detail why any male child, in any stage of transition or not, should be treated differently from all other male children in the UK? What occurred to that male child that has made them in any way different to any other male child?

If one male child is to be allowed special treatment under robust safeguarding protocols to be allowed to share a bedroom, what other male child can be also given this special treatment when in a similar situation of being away with a group? Will another bullied male be given this exemption from being treated as male for the purposes of safeguarding? Just because they are bullied?

Why can’t just all male children be allowed to share a bedroom with female children?

Can you provide the list to follow that your believe qualifies any male child for special exemption from being treated as a male child for safeguarding purposes?

Safeguarding children is based on understanding risk and minimising it. Society understands (based on evidence) that women / girls are at risk from men especially when vulnerable (undressing, naked, sleeping etc) which is why single sex spaces exist.
Why do you think girls must be taught that they have no right to say no to a boy or man wanting access to them when they're undressed, showering, sleeping etc?
You're teaching girls that their role is as support humans for males with no rights to privacy of their own.

@Coldfeetandnocleansocks your approach sounds measured and sensible

Sometimes risk is unavoidable, yes.

In some situations, risks can be identified and then very easily avoided- this is absolutely essential in the safeguarding of children.

Yet that is never generally used as an excuse to abandon basic safety measures.

If there are clashing risks, then new solutions need to be found.

How little you must care about young girls is you think it's acceptable to compromise their safety for males. I find that absolutely breath taking.

As soon as the word 'cis' is used my hopes for any intelligent argument diminishes rapidly.

This

Me blood boils. Girls don't feel they can object to trans girls sharing rooms etc of they appears transphobic.

Just another way womens rights are being eroded and made to please men.

And I say this as a mum of boys

@Helleofabore

Virtually every situation in life carries risk. In many cases these can clash. Nothing is zero risk.

OP ask your daughter how she feels and if she wants you to do anything. Her views matter more

OP your poor daughter is being gaslit to believe that her boundaries and safety don't matter. She's very young and may be coerced into something now that she may regret later.

She needs adults to stand up and insist on proper safeguarding for her. The exact opposite of what this poster is suggesting.

@BedBugs5
Firstly, you’re surely not so stupid as to not understand the difference between absolute numbers and %?

Secondly the harm in question is not limited to sexual or physical assault (not sure how you can’t recognise this).

Thirdly, because there’s such a small number of boy on girl sexual assaults when they share accommodation on residentials, do you also think it’s ok for biological girls to be required to share sleeping and personal care space with biological boys?

In fact your posts are so extreme I sense that rather than being your opinions you are a TRA accessing mumsnet to post deliberately provocative comments.

OP it's irrelevant how your Dd feels about it.

You have to deal with it and teach her that the erosion of her boundaries for male performance of femininity is not going to happen.

I am fuming on your behalf here.

I didn’t bring ‘sexual interest’ into it. You have though.

My belief in boundaries is not limited to sexual boundaries. And your comment about ‘I would never have been bothered’ is an indication of your own boundaries.

It is immaterial how rare the presence of trans identifying teens are or how marginalised you believe them to be. None of that justifies putting girls at ANY additional risk. Other arrangements should be made for this child that don't involve sharing with the opposite sex. It's not actually complex at all on that level.

@BedBugs5, what about the rights of girls to single sex spaces for dignity and privacy? Or do you just not think that’s very important?

As an adult, if I went on a work trip, I would not want to share a room with a male colleague, regardless of how nice they are. Should I have the right to refuse that? If so, a teenage girl should also have that right.

No. It is not complex.

You actively dismissed children’s safety with your comment.

So. How many female children do you consider is acceptable to be harmed to any degree before you agree that safeguarding those children should be the priority?

If your answer is ‘it is complex’ and not 0, you are not advocating strong safeguarding of children.

That's your boundaries and beliefs that all children at 15 are sexually interested in each other. The majority aren't.

I would never have been bothered about sharing with a boy and would have just used the bathroom to get changed. But I would have done that with a room full of girls aswel.

OP ask your daughter how she feels and if she wants you to do anything. Her views matter more than any gender ideology on MN, if the school makes a drama out of it, it could be her who is bullied if say the school cancels all trips to prevent it happening again.

@Helleofabore

This is a complex issue in my view. What I do know is that the number of trans young people is tiny and the issue has been blown out of all proportion. Cis girls are far more likely to be harmed by a cis male or female known to them.

These things need to be considered on a case by case basis, balancing the needs of the trans students and others. In some cases, that will mean trans young people being accommodated alongside cis young people of the same gender. Trans young people are stigmatised enough, and this is a supportive measure.

In some cases, more bespoke solutions may be necessary (for example, when there is a history of bullying from cis girls in the school towards the trans student) and it wouldn’t be safe for them to share accommodation.

Yes

This.

I consider the actions that result in a child having lowered boundaries and being unable to recognise that their boundaries have been lowered to be very harmful.

Ultimately, who benefits from any child having lowered boundaries? It is not the children with lowered boundaries.

I think they do get it. They just don't care.

Exactly. Just being there is a big 'no', no physical attack needs to happen. What is it about that they don't seem to get?

I also wonder what the genderists consider harm. Because the moment a boy is placed in a private space with girls, and the girls can't object to it, that is harm.

The fundamental question.

Let's have your number @BedBugs5