Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

So what money tree is going to fund the specialised therapy that apparently everybody is going to be offered? Who is going to be doing it? Why aren’t the people currently on very long waiting lists for it not getting it now? Many of these people want to work and are enduring lives held back because of lengthy waiting lists.

I think you are in for a shock and disappointment if you think it’s going to be any different with Labour.

Hmmm cold hard economic reality…that isn’t that the poor sick and disabled and taking all the money though is it?

The reality that the Tory’s don’t want you talking about is that big corporations and millionaires are NOT paying their fair share.

Instead they will pit average people against average people, tell you it’s the poor peoples fault for taking all the money, or it’s immigrants faults for you not getting a GP appointment, it’s all smoke and mirrors. Unfortunately many people are falling for this. Let’s get angry at the right people, the government, the Torys, the super wealthy who get even wealthier by hiding their money in offshore accounts and big corporations who don’t pay their fair share in tax.

There is no magic money tree, Labour are not magicians people need to start looking at the cold hard economic reality,

Yes, i'm included in that group.

Which isn't that much of a surprise given that some of us have long term conditions for which there's no treatment

I think I read that for a certain percentage of people, once they get signed off sick, they never go back to work ever again. I'm guessing they're trying to stop this happening. But instead people will just be forced to go through the company's process for being laid off due to illness. Or maybe not. Maybe it will keep some people in work but that may not be best for them at all.

well aware what Reeves said in 2015. She was matching Tory narrative, she is Labour right. I still hope Labour will be a little less harsh if win. We shall see.. Dare say you could sound a little gleeful sharing this. I reply further tmrw if able.

Don't let Rachel Reeves catch you;

2015
Rachel Reeves says Labour does not want to represent people out of work.

"We are not the party of people on benefits. We don’t want to be seen, and we're not, the party to represent those who are out of work,"

"Labour are a party of working people, formed for and by working people."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rachel-reeves-says-labour-does-not-want-to-represent-people-out-of-work-10114614.html

Sorry too much pain now to write more/respond today Clavinova.

The bottom of your chart seems to suggest that the data was collected across 2010 (Australia), 2011, 2012 and 2013. Plus, the UK came 10th out of 11 countries for 'healthy lives' - i.e. health outcomes.

Photo attached to show underfunding of NHS under Cons with lower annual increases in funding between 2010-2018

Why were Labour planning to make cuts to the NHS budget?

2009 - Alistair Darling spells out real terms cut to the NHS

The chancellor’s pre-Budget report translates into real terms cuts to the NHS budget from 2011-12 onwards, the chief economist of the King’s Fund has said.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/alistair-darling-spells-out-real-terms-cut-to-the-nhs-budget/5009496.article

2010 - Labour plans “£15-£20bn” of annual 'efficiency savings' for the NHS by 2013-14.

the cumulative ‘savings’ over four years would therefore be in the region of £50bn!

It’s highly unlikely to be achieved and so services will be in effect cut.

https://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/whitehallwatch/2010/04/nhs-efficiency-puzzle-solved-well-sort-of/

To add to this bit:

“I also have to pay now much more towards my social care costs due to local government cuts by Cameron and Osborne. 2010 I paid £48 a week towards it, now £157 a week.” - if just inflation would have been around £70 now. Disabled and sick get so much less now, v basic

This. Sunak is purposely conflating fit/sick notes for those working with sickness and disability benefits to also garner public support for proposed punitive changes and/or cuts in the disability payment PIP.

Sick and disabled already experienced benefit cuts and badly managed PIP and ESA assessments under Cameron and Osborne policies: I am being changed over to UC from ESA this year - am long term severely ill- will result in £40 less a week once the transitional cover phases out as I will lose my disability premiums - due to getting both ESA and PIP - and which have been abolished under UC. My first transfer to PIP i was wrongly awarded low care, am bedridden, v stressful process whilst I went through appeal to get enhanced care rate.

I also have to pay now much more towards my social care costs due to local government cuts by Cameron and Osborne. 2010 I paid £48 a week towards it, now £157 a week.

I agree with you and, what is a more serious problem for Labour, they can be relied to turn out and vote Tory.

The anti-Tory vote is so split in the UK that it will take something really serious to get them out of office and, in spite of everything - even Liz Truss - I am by no means certain we are there yet.

Just remember what happened to the Labour Party under the bloke who originally said that.

Labour are nowhere near as home and dry as the polls would have you believe. A minority Tory Govt is still on the cards IMO.

Ok, so it’s not so much the job itself as the job plus life. Somehow I always got the impression people were being signed off because they hated their jobs which didn’t make sense because the job doesn’t change when you go back. I’ve had some truly awful work experiences, so I think that is why my mind went to that scenario as the default.

thanks for providing some insight.

I’ve had similar and I do a tough job so I expect to feel a high level of stress. I’ve know people - in my field - be signed off for work related stress. Usually, there is something else, temporary, going on that means the person is experiencing such stress that they are unwell. A few examples; a colleague with a child undergoing cancer treatment, a colleague’s parent died suddenly and her job role was not sustainable with her grief and a colleague’s child was acting out at school and requiring a lot of additional input. These are temporary life stressors and in all cases, they just needed some time and space. They all returned to work after a short period of time. (I have changed details for obvious reasons.)

Among my family and friends, we have a young adult with EUPD and ADHD. Their moods and responses are so volatile and extreme that they'd never be able to hold a job down for more than a few days, and their concentration is so poor that it's hard to think what work they could possibly do.

Another young person was diagnosed autistic after waiting over 6 years for CAMHS to assess him. He's now awaiting further assessment for PTSD, and is socially phobic as well as having what seems like agoraphobia. I wonder what job he could do?

A sibling is bipolar and has to have monthly depo injections to keep it under control. For two weeks after each one, he's like a fucking zombie, then has a week of being fairly ok before he starts getting manic. What workplace would countenance an employee who was only fit to work one week in four?

According to stats 51% of PIP applications are rejected. Some give up but 69% of appeals are successful

I work in welfare rights and the success rate isn't much better even when experienced professionals are doing the applications. Across the whole team, the percentage that succeed is in the low 60s.

Our appeal success rate is over 98%. It's rising too, we haven't lost one for ages. That's an awful lot of claims that are incorrectly refused.

I was off once signed off with stress when I had a child very seriously ill in hospital for a month. I theory, I could have worked my hours at night from home or some from the ward but I couldn't cope. We didn't know if we would lose her. I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, lost a stone. So GP signed me off with stress. Not every stress related sick note is work related. Sometimes, life just happens. What else should I have done? I was off on, shock horror, full pay.

No, I have had absolute breakdowns over stressful jobs. Sobbing in my car because I couldn’t face another day kind of stress. Crying at my desk because I was so miserable kind of stress. I just live in a place where my choices were to keep going or to quit. Since I needed money, I always dragged myself to the job until I found a new one.

I’m not saying it’s a good thing to have to push yourself so hard. I am still perplexed at how a culture decided to take such a dramatically different approach.

@Ponderingwindow there's a person that's never suffered workplace stress!

There are a million and one different scenarios.

In some circumstances the stress is personal and has nothing to do with work but you’re still too sick to attend work.

Sometimes it takes going off sick for an employer to address work related stress and things can improve afterwards. Of course sometimes it’s better to leave, but you may still be too sick to work your notice period.

But if you’re sick you’re sick. The idea that illness is overcome by willpower or sheer force of character and is very damaging (and wrong)

Difference between benefits fraudsters and benefits claimants
They are not one and the same as the cons party would like people to think.

I understand it is debilitating, I don’t understand why the answer isn’t to go get a different job.