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Original poster

AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?

108 replies

TeaAddicted · 18/04/2024 14:44

My eldest daughter is 22 and lives in a country she has always wanted to since she was a teenager. She knew I would miss her when she moved, so at first she said she was only going for a short time to go travelling. But now she seems to be staying put in this country. One of her friends from school is also out there with her and they decided to go together.

She phoned me a few days ago for a chat and told me something worrying. Apparently she’s been working in a ‘hostess bar’ where she speaks to men and serves them drinks. I was a bit upset about this because she’d told me at first that she’d been teaching English and had told my ex-husband (her dad) the truth about the hostess job. To me, it seems similar to escorting and I’m not comfortable with her being in that environment, probably being leered at by older men.

I only found out because she told her dad that one of the clients, a man in his late 30s, seems obsessed with her and that he followed her back to where she lives. Ex-husband told me and then my daughter confirmed it during the phone call. I told her that she’s in a dangerous situation as this man knows where she lives and anything could happen. I told her to report him to the police and to make plans to come back home where her family are. She told me she doesn’t want to report it as she doesn’t have the right work visa and it could mess things up for her/ get her into trouble.

I have a younger school-aged daughter who has now become aware of this situation because she heard my ex-husband talking about it with me and now she’s asking questions and worrying. I don’t know what to say to her because I can’t sleep at night thinking about this.

I’m upset with my ex-husband and my older daughter because both have been dishonest and I suspect they’re still not telling me everything that’s going on. She has always been close to both of us but more so to him because he moved out when she was young and has always been the weekend parent who gave her all the treats and fun trips, while I was working and trying to support the children.

Ex-husband has told her to be careful, tell her boss about the man and to tell us if the man causes any problems. He says she’s an adult and we shouldn’t interfere. But I don’t think that’s good enough. I’m terrified that this strange man will cause her harm. I want her to come home and have been arguing with her dad about this since I found out. I know she kept things from me to stop me worrying but that’s caused even more worry. Her dad is quite irresponsible anyway (that's another story) and is dismissing what I'm saying to him about this.

I’ve asked my partner if we can use our savings to book a flight there for a visit. At least then I’ll be close to her and can help with the situation because I feel powerless here.

AIBU to tell her to come home and end her travels early? I know she’s an adult but it’s hard to sit back and do nothing when you feel that your child could be in a dangerous situation.

OP posts:
LiterallyOnFire · 24/04/2024 00:08

SuncreamAndIceCream · 19/04/2024 17:10

The working illegally would worry me more than anything

You do not want to get tangled up in the criminal justice system - almost everyone prosecuted gets convicted, police fit people up, forced confessions the lot. It's very punitive.

Exactly. Being unable to get the proper visa due to the nature and that work is always a worrying situation. Especially when that means you have no recourse to police help despite being in a job where stalkers and worse could easily become a problem.

I think it's as important not to minimise as it is but to be alarmist.

Japan is generally a safe, developed country and we know "lots of people do it" (hostessing) but I wouldn't want my daughter working alone in any country where she couldn't go to the police for help, especially in a "nightlife" job.

Maybe reflect that to her OP in a pros & cons, "could be worse but could also be much better" kind of analysis of where she is and what she could do next?

LiterallyOnFire · 24/04/2024 00:00

TeaAddicted · 23/04/2024 20:07

Thanks @Moier
It's like a different world out there. It's such an odd thing to employ young women to do. But I'm confused, as it says it's not prostitution but they won't issue work visas for this type of work because they class it as 'fuzoku' which when Googled comes up as a prostitution/ sex work. Is it likely that DD could be sleeping with the man who followed her home? I am so concerned about this apparent power imbalance. She's a young woman and he's significantly older with a job and a lot of money (by the sounds of it.)

Edited

It's almost like that murky middle ground that geishas operate in (which apparently we in the west never understand properly), but hostessing in clubs seems like a much sleazier setting than that.

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 23/04/2024 20:07

Thanks @Moier
It's like a different world out there. It's such an odd thing to employ young women to do. But I'm confused, as it says it's not prostitution but they won't issue work visas for this type of work because they class it as 'fuzoku' which when Googled comes up as a prostitution/ sex work. Is it likely that DD could be sleeping with the man who followed her home? I am so concerned about this apparent power imbalance. She's a young woman and he's significantly older with a job and a lot of money (by the sounds of it.)

OP posts:
Moier · 23/04/2024 19:53

I've put below.

AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?
AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?
Moier · 23/04/2024 19:43

Please please don't say it's Tailand.
My friends daughter was an " Hostess " in a bar there.. they were literally prostitutes..

She's home now after one " client " beat her up
She couldn't go to the police.. no visa.. the owner of the club " sorted " ..never found out how he sorted it.. but the girl was on the next flight home with a broken jaw and gonorrhea.
I hope she's safe and you get her home soon.

Clearinguptheclutter · 23/04/2024 19:24

She said that she's known other people who have tried to apply for the work visa and have been rejected.
that’ll be because there he no “work visa” for hostess work. I really don’t know what the chances are of her getting caught but I’m fairly sure the consequences would be unpleasant.

no point engaging with the ex. Just keep talking to her and reiterating that if she needs money to ask you not accept offers from random men.

she does seem very naive unfortunately.

commonsense12 · 23/04/2024 19:13

You can't tell her to do anything. Also, I would hate it if my parents had unannouncedly booked a flight to a country I'm in halfway across the world.

Even if you do go there and find her, then what? You tell her the same in person as you do over the phone, but the man still exists, and nothing changes? It sounds harsh, but being there will not provide anything apart from making yourself feel better at the expense of what your daughter feels.

I agree, though, that she should leave if she is in danger, even if it is at the expense of a visa.

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 23/04/2024 19:00

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to update. I've had a stressful few days. My youngest had an accident at the weekend, fell off of her bike and hit her head so I spoke to my ex-husband later than planned and over the phone instead of face to face like I'd planned to. He was the same as usual, very dismissive. I raised with him the issues about DD working illegally and he said the chance she would get caught is remote and we have to let her make her own mistakes and not 'micromanage' her. I was close to losing my temper with him so it was a short call.

After that I phoned DD. I spoke to her very honestly and said that I have concerns about the visa situation. She said that she's known other people who have tried to apply for the work visa and have been rejected. She likes being in Japan and doesn't want to leave the country and be stuck outside for months if the visa gets rejected. She says she originally planned to just travel around Japan for a short time on the tourist visa but was offered the hostess bar job and accepted it because she was running short of money. I said I'd be willing to help her apply for the work visa and make sure all the correct information is included. She can be a bit scatty and her attention wanders so I think she's worried about missing something out and being rejected.

I asked her again about the man but I felt she was uncomfortable talking about it, perhaps because she knows it's causing me a lot of worry. She said he's harmless and he wants to help her. I asked what she meant and she said that she accepted an offer of money from him in the past. This raised red flags and I am sorry to admit that I started to question her and panic. I kept thinking, money for what? She said it was a 'gift' to help her with daily living costs because she told him during their chat in the club that she was short on money that month. I told her that men don't randomly give money without expecting something in return and she told me I should forget about it because he only wanted to help. She then clammed up and changed the subject. I ended the phone call by saying I'd send her money if she asked and she should have approached me before taking money from a random man in a foreign country. It ended awkwardly but she is still replying to my texts.

I am upset about this whole thing. DD is being so naive and I feel like her father isn't realising just how much. I'm not sure if he knows about the money she accepted but sometimes I think I should give up with him and focus on trying to help her how I can from here.

OP posts:
SundayTulips · 22/04/2024 17:43

Cantrushart · 22/04/2024 17:09

Please don't pay too much attention to the uninformed, alarmist posters. I worked in Japan 30 odd years ago. I taught English during the day and worked as a hostess in the evenings. Most of us did the same thing to maximise earnings. The bars were legal, above-board and regulated. We were treated respectfully and at no time did I feel pressured into providing other 'services'. I don't know of anyone who did. It was great fun and I met a lot of interesting people. I did, however, have a work visa that I renewed by travelling to Korea. Don't be too spooked by the headlines. Japan is a safe country.

I agree in general, but OP’s daughter is working illegally, and presumably anyone prepared to hire illegal workers may not be completely above board. This puts her in a vulnerable position as I bet it will make her reluctant to seek official assistance in the case of any difficulties. She has also been followed home by a client which is extremely worrying.

Cantrushart · 22/04/2024 17:09

Please don't pay too much attention to the uninformed, alarmist posters. I worked in Japan 30 odd years ago. I taught English during the day and worked as a hostess in the evenings. Most of us did the same thing to maximise earnings. The bars were legal, above-board and regulated. We were treated respectfully and at no time did I feel pressured into providing other 'services'. I don't know of anyone who did. It was great fun and I met a lot of interesting people. I did, however, have a work visa that I renewed by travelling to Korea. Don't be too spooked by the headlines. Japan is a safe country.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 22/04/2024 16:46

SundayTulips · 18/04/2024 15:01

This story made me think of Lucie Blackman

Show quote history

Me too. I'd be asking her to come home and sending cash for the ticket if necessary.

Sunsetsandcocktails · 22/04/2024 16:34

Hi OP, I think you are right to be concerned but trying to force her home will only push her away. I taught English in Japan at your daughter's age and if my parents had tried to get me to come home it would have had the opposite effect I think; I was having the time of my life! I suspect your daughter is too and if she is hostessing she may well be on good money which would be hard to give up.

I think you should try to speak to her and calmly explain your valid feelings and fears about 2 separate issues:
-the work she is doing on the wrong visa, as others have said she may well be kicked out for this and if she loves it so much I can't believe she'd want to jeopardise her chance of staying there. There are loads of options to teach English but she really does need to do it through proper channels. Maybe talk to her about her long-term goals and get her to come up with a plan.

-working as a hostess; I do think Japan on the whole is extremely safe and although you might be thinking the worst, there are lots of girls who do this and it most likely is the case she is just paid to chat. The worry I would have is the ones who get obsessed with foreign women. As well as Lucie Blackman, my immediate thought was of Lindsay Hawker, another awful story. I can't lie, I would be concerned about someone following her home BUT in this day and age of social media and tracking and all that, could you get her to at least agree to regular contact to let you know she is safe and for her to always make sure she goes home with a friend? Does she live with anyone else?

I really do sympathise as I can see it from both sides - I think focus on communicating with her and seeing what steps she is taking to keep herself safe and trusting her to look after herself. And as amazing as Japan is, most people don't stay there forever so hopefully she'll come home at some point!

FiloPasty · 22/04/2024 13:34

How did you get on @TeaAddicted ? I hope your ex more on board with support ?

Stripperyone · 19/04/2024 20:00

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen very good points-and yes, those bars will not have such policies! The 'girls' are their product. I dont know much about Japan but I know enough to know I would not feel safe there even as a middle aged female, let alone a young attractive one.

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 19/04/2024 17:56

She does speak some Japanese. It wasn't her main degree but she studied it as an elective at university and did some private studying before she went.
I'm not sure if she has still her passport and I don't know much at all about the hostess bar. I only found out recently and was shocked so didn't ask this. We usually talk on the phone at the weekend so I will ask when I call her on Sunday. I really hope nobody has taken her passport. I don't think she would voluntarily give it up. She says she is doing well at the bar and has a lot of requests. She even told me that she was requested by a large group of businessmen so she is probably making a lot of money for these people. It's hard to see how proud she is of all this because I don't want her main role in life to be being ogled by sleazy older men.

I asked her a lot of questions about the creepy man last time we spoke but she was downplaying it. Lots of 'it's not a big deal/ he's just lonely.' I asked if anyone travels with her between home and the bar and she says her friend walks with her if they are working at the same time or she gets a taxi if it's late.

I will see ExH at the weekend when he drops our son off. I'm going to raise a lot of the things that people have said here and make him take me seriously. He needs to realise that this is his daughter's safety and to stop being so blasé about it.

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 19/04/2024 17:47

‘I’d encourage her to tell the bar owner, usually these places have policies about not harassing staff’

😂😂😂

The girls are the main attraction, not the over priced whiskey or fizzy wine. The bar owners are usually in hock to the crime syndicates, or profiting from the uneasy contract between the guests and the girls. ‘Harassing’ will only be addressed if it is interfering with the smooth running of the establishment, or
Profitability.

Save your money though OP, it will be better used if there is a crisis and she needs bailing out or evacuating at short notice. Two western women who don’t speak Japanese will have zero influence with anyone : police, bar owners, the senior ‘girls’ , the clients.

I love Japan , and I greatly respect their culture, but if you want a glimpse of what life might be like on another planet, Japan is probably your best bet.

Stripperyone · 19/04/2024 17:37

Is she taking safety precautions at all OP? Is she being accompanied home, is her home secure?
I was a stripper (in the UK and other European countries however) until a year or so ago however I was SO careful. I'd always be walked to my car/taxi even if it meant waiting 45 minutes for a bouncer to become free for example. Is she aware of dangers?
Reality is there isn't much you can do with her being an adult, sadly.
I'd be worried too-especially about the visa situation. Does she have good friends and other things or is this work her life? Those kind of worlds can absolutely suck you in if you don't keep an eye on things.

ringoffiire · 19/04/2024 17:27

Definitely good advice to report it to the police, he sounds like a creep. And do go out and see her as well.

But 'come back home where your family are' is very patronising to a 22 year old, and is actually not going to solve her problems.

She's not a child and there is no reason why 'coming home' will make her any happier or better off.

You shouldn't put pressure on her like this - she needs to spread her wings and make her own life in a place that feels right for her.

loropianalover · 19/04/2024 17:24

Are you absolutely certain that she still has her passport? Make sure the bar aren’t holding it as part of her ‘terms’. Is she able to quit the job without hassle if she wanted to? As someone said earlier, it’s not actually about the ‘work’ she’s doing which is 99% just general chat, it’s about who owns and manages these bars. Do they see her as someone who could make a lot of money for them, does she attract wealthy ‘clients’? What happens when they ask her to work in another bar further from home or at private events, can she say no?

I can’t tell if she realises she’s in a sticky situation & doesn’t want to worry you or if she’s really just naive to it all. This man that followed her home, what if he had tried to get in or tried to hurt her… would she have called the police or be too scared? Would she be able to communicate with the emergency line, can she speak Japanese?

Do you know the parents of the friends she’s with, to reach out to? I’d probably start there.

SuncreamAndIceCream · 19/04/2024 17:10

The working illegally would worry me more than anything

You do not want to get tangled up in the criminal justice system - almost everyone prosecuted gets convicted, police fit people up, forced confessions the lot. It's very punitive.

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/04/2024 16:52

Def go out and see her but make it out that it’s a holiday not a rescue mission

Japan Is safe and the Lucie Blackman thing was an awful but one off tragedy. Generally it’s extremely safe. But working there without the right visa is asking for trouble. It’s not hard to get a visa to teach English but they can only be secured outside the country IIRC.

very difficult to convince her to come back though. You just to hope the novelty wears off. It did for me (I wasn’t hostessing !) though my mother was certainly worried at the time that I’d never come back

Maddy70 · 19/04/2024 16:50

The country isn't the problem her choice of job is. Book a flight. Check on her

dancingsands · 19/04/2024 16:42

This story made me think of Lucie Blackman

My first thought too

mindutopia · 19/04/2024 15:56

I have some knowledge of hostess bars from previous research work I did many years ago and I have to say it isn't something I'd want my dd doing. No, it's not sex work, but it can be exploitative.

I would offer to support her in setting herself up in more legit work, particularly if you are able to help with financing visa costs, housing, etc. in the short term. I would sell it to her as you know she wants to live there and is loving her life there. But doing illegal work risks her immigration status. If she's caught, beyond facing prison time, she could likely be deported and banned from ever entering the country again. If she sees a future there, the sensible thing is not to throw it away doing something stupid and illegal in the short term.

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 19/04/2024 15:45

Thanks for your advice.
DD does have a degree and she told me initially that she was teaching English but this turned out to be untrue. When she said she had a casual job in a 'bar' I didn't think much of it because she worked in a bar while studying. But a hostess bar is a different thing entirely and I feel like I was misled by DD and exH.

I'm looking at flights to Japan. My sister has offered to come with me if she can get some time off work. I would prefer this as I'm not confident doing long flights alone. DP is fine with this and is happy to look after my youngest while he's away. He understands how worried I am but it's difficult to talk as my youngest DD is around when we're both home and we're having to discuss things when she's in bed because she is anxious after what she heard before.

I won't even tell DD1 I'm going to Japan because of this. I'll say that I wanted to visit her and see the country. She might not believe me but I don't care at this point.

My sister suggested messaging the friend she's out there with to ask if things are ok. I have a good relationship with her because she's been friends with DD for a long time but I'm worried it'll seem odd. But I'm so worried about this man who's been following her. I want more information about him and how long this has been going on. I couldn't sleep last night for thinking about things he could do now he knows where she lives.

OP posts: