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"Off rolling" isn't this illegal?

81 replies

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 17:53

My child has been having bullying issues at school and they cannot keep them safe. When we spoke to the school today they mentioned "off rolling" them. I thought it was an odd phrase so have Googled. It seems to be a way of getting rid of problem children without expelling them.
What do we do now? Should we just remove them from school? Will the council help?

OP posts:
DonnaBanana · 17/04/2024 22:12

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 19:35

Yes ops now year 10 son hit a biological girl year 7 girl in the jaw in retaliation to nasty words and a hit. Ops child got suspended.

I very much think we are hearing a very softly softly my child is never wrong side of this story.

Talk about blame the victim. If a year 7 hit me first I’d hit them back too despite their age. Play with matches and you’re going to get your fingers burned.

GoldenTrout · 17/04/2024 22:01

Before your meeting with the school, get copies of their bullying and discipline policies, and at the meeting ask them exactly how they have implemented them to keep your child safe.

It very much sounds as if they should have an EHCP. Use the IPSEA guide as a starting point - https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Asking for an EHC needs assessment

When should a local authority carry out an EHC needs assessment? If a local authority (“LA”) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, they must consider: whether the child or young pers...

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Jk8 · 17/04/2024 21:49

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 18:25

The school can't deal with a emo ftm trans kid who is being bullied verbally and physically. We finally got them to look at their ctv and they admitted that they can't keep them safe unless they do all their lessons in a safe space area and stay in for breaks.

To be fair a 'a emo ftm trans kid' would never have had a good experiance at school without indipendant lessons/staying in at breaks ?????

Yes it shouldn't be the case with rules/uniforms/modern parenting/teaching

But you also need either 'save it for the weekend' or take extra measures to be safe aswell as contacting school

FrogTheWarrior · 17/04/2024 21:45

PollyPeachum · 17/04/2024 20:56

Realistically this is the situation the school and LEA has to deal with because the parents, that is ADULTS give in to children who demand to be different. Being kind and indulging these fantasies gets nowhere.

Either that, or the bullies are learning behaviours from transphobic parents.

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:57

I'll speak to their council education support worker again. They are very good.

OP posts:
PollyPeachum · 17/04/2024 20:56

Realistically this is the situation the school and LEA has to deal with because the parents, that is ADULTS give in to children who demand to be different. Being kind and indulging these fantasies gets nowhere.

Youzaname · 17/04/2024 20:52

They sound more like a tomboy. Which is normal. It seems ridiculous that they should be bullied out of school. Are the school not ashamed they can’t stop their pupils from bullying another child?

Is there not a school somewhere nearish that has a stricter ethos and won’t tolerate bullying? Or a school that is better equipped to support a child with what seems to be a range of SEN?
Have you tried asking your local authority for an EHC assessment at least?

littleducks · 17/04/2024 20:51

It all sounds like a bit of a mess. I realise you don't think the previous incident was relevant but if they themselves have been disciplined for physical assault (whatever the back story) it does affect procedures.

Are they under CAMHs?

I would make a EHCP request the dyslexia/ADHD/ASD are likely educational needs and the school are saying they can't meet your child's needs and keep them safe. This may mean they are educated at home but with LA paying for tuition and exam fees rather than being home scored where it days to you. Or they might be in a small specially resources provision setting for children with emotional difficulties who can't attend mainstream see you in a bit Sony love you darlingif there is one in your area.

Octavia64 · 17/04/2024 20:34

If they are autistic, and have dyslexia and adhd then you have a very good chance of getting an EHCP.

There is a lot of paperwork, but there are organisations to help with filling it in and supporting you,

Try SOSSEN and posting on the SEN boards on here. There is a long running thread for people applying for EHCPs.

eatdrinkandbemerry · 17/04/2024 20:31

If we dare complain about the lack of sen support at my child's school we are advised there's plenty of other schools to send our child to.
They let bullying continue and try off roll the victim!

GladysHeeler · 17/04/2024 20:29

But either way the world doesn’t have to know know unless they trying to date

But it's completely apparent what biological sex year ten children are by looking at them with your eyes.

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:29

They are autistic have dyslexia and adhd. I haven't looked at ehpc. I thought it was difficult to get.
We'll need to go back to an online school and find the money somehow.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 17/04/2024 20:25

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:17

They were home schooled since covid so years 7,8,9. I stupidly thought they should be in school years 10 &11 to do their gcses.

Op I have seen a number of teens who are home educated try to fit into the secondary education system

I have not seen a successful one yet.

Some managed to survive in school but most didn't manage.

Teens are extremely socially brutal and secondary schools are not a forgiving environment. Trans is currently an extremely controversial topic (Cass report etc) and your child will stick out.

Are they ND? Can you try to get home tutoring or similar provided through EOTAS if they have an EHCP?

DoreenonTill8 · 17/04/2024 20:25

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 20:07

Fair point. They should use a unisex/disabled toilet. But either way the world doesn’t have to know know unless they trying to date.

But op has said that it's obvious child is female, but wants to be seen as male. I don't think it's fair to hide from people they're sharing ablutions and changing areas with someone of the opposite sex in order to appease one person.

Octavia64 · 17/04/2024 20:20

Sorry, not segregated, de-registered

Octavia64 · 17/04/2024 20:19

Off rolling is illegal. The school should not do it although some try.

You do sound like you are in a difficult situation if the school don't think they can keep your child safe.

Some possibilities which might be options:

Child stays on roll tutors are sent out by the school

Child stays on roll and physically goes to school but is in a separate learning space (Sen dept or equivalent) and has 1:1 support or group lessons

You segregated child and home school - be aware the entrance fees for GCSEs can be substantial so if you are tempted to do this maybe worth discussing with current school about doing GCSEs with them? Some will permit some won't

Does your child have an EHCP?

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:17

They were home schooled since covid so years 7,8,9. I stupidly thought they should be in school years 10 &11 to do their gcses.

OP posts:
OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 20:13

Heartoverhead1 · 17/04/2024 20:13

Even if they're "more of the issue than the op cares to admit" the LA still has a responsibility to educate the child. They can't just off roll them rather than deal with bullying.

They can fulfill that via many means though the Lea.

Heartoverhead1 · 17/04/2024 20:13

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 20:09

Sounds like there maybe more issues than what’s been posted if they have only moved school in year 10. Why did they leave the last school and are you sure your child isn’t more of the issue than you’d really like to admit.

Even if they're "more of the issue than the op cares to admit" the LA still has a responsibility to educate the child. They can't just off roll them rather than deal with bullying.

Heartoverhead1 · 17/04/2024 20:11

If your child is asd and adhd then doesn't the school have a duty to them in respect of their disabilities?

Is there a ringleader/s of the gang and have they been punished for their bullying too?

I have some sympathy for your child. I was bullied at school, and it only stopped when i snapped and hit back.

If the other kid doesn't want consequences they shouldn't bully a vulnerable peer.

Citrusandginger · 17/04/2024 20:09

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:03

Unfortunately they want to be addressed as a boy. And look like an emo girl. Really don't pass. They only started at this school this year and it's been a disaster from day one. I naivety thought they could make it through gcses there.

With the publication of the Cass report, the school will need to tread very carefully here. It is likely that they will wish to avoid being accused of socially transing a child.

Transgender Trend has some resources you may find useful. I would be pushing for mental health support for your child as hard as you can.

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 20:09

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:03

Unfortunately they want to be addressed as a boy. And look like an emo girl. Really don't pass. They only started at this school this year and it's been a disaster from day one. I naivety thought they could make it through gcses there.

Sounds like there maybe more issues than what’s been posted if they have only moved school in year 10. Why did they leave the last school and are you sure your child isn’t more of the issue than you’d really like to admit.

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 20:07

DoreenonTill8 · 17/04/2024 20:05

They don't have to be 'threat' what if the boys just don't want a girl in the toilets with them?

Fair point. They should use a unisex/disabled toilet. But either way the world doesn’t have to know know unless they trying to date.

DoreenonTill8 · 17/04/2024 20:05

OhmygodDont · 17/04/2024 19:57

At a new school in theory would anyone need to know they are trans. Could they not just be another emo kid. Though I know any reason for bullying happens such as emo but it removes the trans part of the bullying. They can truly settle in as James the emo.

and I say this as someone who’s all for keeping women’s bathrooms for biological women. But your Son is no threat to other boys in the boys bathroom. Otherwise wouldn’t normal condone be all keep it secret secret at school type thing.

Edited

They don't have to be 'threat' what if the boys just don't want a girl in the toilets with them?

Stressedgiraffe · 17/04/2024 20:03

Unfortunately they want to be addressed as a boy. And look like an emo girl. Really don't pass. They only started at this school this year and it's been a disaster from day one. I naivety thought they could make it through gcses there.

OP posts: