To ask what happens when Social Services gets involved

MadameDeLaRue · 2024-04-17T09:31:35+00:00

There has been a referral because my 7 year old child has been mistreated by their father. The father was coercively controlling to me and has imposed control on my child which may have negatively impacted their physical health. The ex is devious and will definitely minimise, lie, characterise me as being at fault somehow. I have been keeping a log of my child's feelings (they say that their father is mean and that they hate him, but can't or won't give details). How will this work? Will SS be interested in all the details that I can share? I truly think that my ex is a dangerous and controlling person who has created a culture of fear for my child, and I am worried about this getting swept under the rug.

Theunamedcat · 21/05/2024 22:21

Unfortunately manipulators prevail unless challenged my ex did time after time he was the one on bail refusing to engage in services yet time after time it was me who was in the wrong I went to my group like they told me too he turned that around into me socialising with unsafe people however there was a turning point when he was droning on yet again about my refusal to allow him to take "the potty" with him which was why he kept putting ds back in nappies when a replacement staff member from ds nursery said "why haven't you bought your own?" Suddenly someone asked a reasonable question and it opened the floodgates on his abusive butt they questioned why he could buy nappies but not a potty why was it my responsibility to provide everything 🤔 why was he not paying child support why why why and for once he was embarrassed he made us pay for it later of course but that one meeting was fab

BTW he has nothing to do with them now for almost two years it dwindled to nothing he has a new distraction now I hope they marry and stay together may he never look in our direction again

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 09:51

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. I think that I have a bit more perspective and knowledge about how it all works now.

Does anyone know offhand: if court proceedings start and we can then reach an agreement, does the court then issue an enforceable order basically rubber stamping our settlement?

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Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 09:45

@PurpleBugz thank you.

Ultimately, as you say, a court order would at least mean he can't harass me constantly about contact, which is a significant source of stress (especially when he involves my daughter in the arguments, which he frequent does).

These stories of courts favouring fathers chill me to the bone. As @Jellycatspyjamas says, he is an expert manipulator and can spin literally anything in his favour.

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PurpleBugz · 21/05/2024 08:48

@MadameDeLaRue I feel your pain. I thought the family court would protect my children from their abusive father and it's a joke they serve fathers. My ex even said in court he needs more contact to reduce is maintenance. Kiss he kept talking about what is best for the father and I corrected him saying the law is regarding what's best for the child not the father to which the judge replied what's best for the father is what's best for the child. Just disgusting.

My advice is don't be scared of court. Although I lost in terms of my ex got unsupervised contact what we have is a court order. I have spent last few years responding "we will follow the court order" to all his attempts at control and manipulation. It's like a shield really. I'm sure you have heard of grey rock/ do this it works honestly it does. Finally my advice is get someone else to do handovers and keep them in public places.

After a couple years of hell my ex started drifting off to his new victim once he couldn't get an emotional response from me.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your child. It's the wrong advice as you know due to allegations of coaching but I when my kids have begged me not to send them I've told them I'm court ordered to send them because daddy wants to see them and I get in trouble if I don't send them. If they were still coming home with stories like you dd I would find it hard not to say 'people don't believe me and I can't do anything when no one believes me' follows up with some comment on how school has a duty to report. That said my experience of reporting concerns after you have a court order is the police/SS look at the case see there is a court order and don't do anything just advise you to take it back to court. Concerns need to come from those outside the family for anyone to listen

Jellycatspyjamas · 21/05/2024 08:37

Honestly social work aren’t going to worry too much about unbrushed hair or him undermining you. They are looking for evidence that she is unsafe ie left unattended for long periods of time, carers under the influence of drugs or alcohol, an unsafe living environment, excessive physical punishment etc and they need to evidence ongoing concern and lack of capacity for change which is why they put parenting classes, family support etc in place. Except in very extreme cases they can’t just take your word that he’s not safe and stop contact, so they will explore and investigate.

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 08:34

@Jellycatspyjamas thanks for reporting 😊

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Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 08:31

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness so sorry you have been through a similar situation.

My solicitor is advising me to provide supervised contact for the reasons you mentioned, and I am following all advice.

"If you cancel your child support claim and stop contact is there any chance he'll just walk away?" He is very prideful and invested in the idea that he is a family man, so I am not totally sure. He also wants to have control over our daughter as a coercive controller.

But in the end, almost everything is down to money with him. I have an idea that once this all blows over, maybe I can devise a plan that makes him feel that he's gotten one over on me by not paying (so he can feel he's won) while ensuring my daughter doesn't have to be exposed to him more than necessary.

I realise that the traditional view is that it's always good for kids to have contact with their parents - but she is miserable with him and I think he harms her self esteem. I think occasional special days out or something would be better than his being involved in day-to-day care.

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MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 08:24

@Theunamedcat the school are VERY supportive. He only does what he can get away with - so her hair is brushed when she goes to school, but not when it's just me.

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Theunamedcat · 21/05/2024 08:21

Are the school not supporting you? Surely they see the unbrushed hair on days he has her?

Jellycatspyjamas · 21/05/2024 08:17

*You're right, I don't have the report yet. But why would I have the exact same things recommended as her father? This suggests they just view this as a petty squabble among parents.

(btw I have reported my post describing the exact act committed on the off chance my ex could see this thread - would you mind editing your post which describes it?)*

I’ve missed the edit window but I’ve reported my post and asked for it to be removed.

In terms of the parenting classes, yes it feels like the same intervention but parenting classes can be used for many reasons. In some cases they can be a good support for parents navigating a particular challenge, they can give the organisers a good insight into the attitudes of the parents who attend, they can highlight capacity for change, or bring risk concerns to the fore. They can be a useful part of the assessment process when you have two parents each saying things about the other. It’s not a punishment or a comment on your parenting, it’s a tool to help understand what might actually be happening.

You need to remember social work don’t really know you or your ex, and need to find a way to figure out what’s going on in the absence of independent evidence. This is one of the ways they can do that.

Oblomov24 · 21/05/2024 08:15

Exactly!

SS can't do what you're asking them to do op, it's impossible. You wouldn't want it done to you would you?

Just stop and take a breath op. You're in the midst and can't see straight.

Leah5678 · 21/05/2024 08:11

Sorry you're going through this op it's very stressful, did you say he only has her so he doesn't have to pay child support? Would he back off if you said he didn't have to pay it? Would you be financially comfortable if he didn't pay it?

Notamum12345577 · 21/05/2024 08:10

Jellycatspyjamas · 21/05/2024 07:59

I am already at breaking point with stress and I will have to use all of our savings. How could a protracted and nasty legal battle (as it will be with my ex) possibly benefit anyone?

Believe me when I say trying to stop contact through the child protection process will be much, much more nasty. Social work would need to evidence that he presents a risk of significant harm to your daughter, and that there is no other way to keep her safe than to remove his right to contact.

That will bring his, and your parenting under a microscope because they do need to consider the possibility of parental alienation (because people use the child protection purpose in that way more than you’d believe. They also need to show that they have put various measures and supports in place to improve his parenting capacity, which can be a long process in itself, especially given he seems articulate and able to defend himself. He will attack your own care of your child, as he’s already started to do - and social work will need to consider his allegations as much as they need to consider your concerns. Your daughter will need to be spoken to by social work about each allegation which will be distressing for her.

Simply put, if the concerns you’ve raised about him were instead raised about you, would you expect social work to remove your child from your care? Because that’s what you’re asking them to do and, for good reason, the threshold for removal is very high with lots of intervention along the way.

I’m not saying it’s fair, child protection is however a legal process with thresholds that need to be met, and the process is long, involved and intrusive for all concerned.

If the OP stopped contact, wouldn’t that give the ex more ammo for his ‘parental alienation’ claim?

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 08:06

@Jellycatspyjamas "It’s not necessarily the case that contact would be stopped given there’s another adult in the father’s home who would be expected to act as a protective factor for the child"

My daughter says he only does these things when the stepmother isn't around, and the stepmother is calling my daughter a liar perhaps due to this. But SS isn't recommending supervised contact or anything.

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Notamum12345577 · 21/05/2024 08:04

Jellycatspyjamas · 21/05/2024 07:25

You need to inform the police about it. SS will get involved, there will (should) be a safety plan. her ex probably won't be unsupervised time with DD whilst the investigation is pending.

The police are already involved, and given social work are already involved I assume the OP has told them about it too. Social work will need to speak to her daughter, and her daughter will need to be able to tell them independently about what happened.

It’s not necessarily the case that contact would be stopped given there’s another adult in the father’s home who would be expected to act as a protective factor for the child - eg they would effectively supervise contact. Contact isn’t court ordered, so the OP can just not send her child and let the father take her to court. I’d think social work would expect those measures to be in place already given the concerns the OP has.

SS have already spoken to the daughter. They think the OP made it up according to OPs updates before this post

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 08:03

@Jellycatspyjamas "Believe me when I say trying to stop contact through the child protection process will be much, much more nasty."

Ok. I can see this is possible.

Everything about this situation is just awful.

I wish I hadn't reported.

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EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 21/05/2024 08:02

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:35

@boredybored videos are viewed as evidence of coaching and being an evil and malicious parent.

I was worried that would be the outcome when you said you had videos. Most MNs seem very naive on this stuff. Its always LTB, then dont let him see the kids or just stop contact and let him take you to court, as if Cafcass and the courts always get it right. It shouldn't be a risk involving the authorities or protecting your child but it is. The kicker if you don't stop contact now they definitely wont take it seriously. If you cancel your child support claim and stop contact is there any chance he'll just walk away?

When I seperated from my DC abusive dad, my lawyer basically said I would have to go and pick them up from school and stop contact if he tried to force the 50/50 he wanted because otherwise my concerns about this on my DDs mental health wouldn't be taken seriously. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't and then it comes down to the judge on the day. Some would dismiss my concerns if I didn't block contact, while other's wouldn't be happy that I hadn't waited for the court to decide. Turned out thankfully he wasn't interested enough in 50/50 to go to court over it. My DD is old enough now to be listened too, but whether she could actually talk to someone independent is doubtful. I'm sorry you're facing this situation, it's so messed up.

Jellycatspyjamas · 21/05/2024 07:59

I am already at breaking point with stress and I will have to use all of our savings. How could a protracted and nasty legal battle (as it will be with my ex) possibly benefit anyone?

Believe me when I say trying to stop contact through the child protection process will be much, much more nasty. Social work would need to evidence that he presents a risk of significant harm to your daughter, and that there is no other way to keep her safe than to remove his right to contact.

That will bring his, and your parenting under a microscope because they do need to consider the possibility of parental alienation (because people use the child protection purpose in that way more than you’d believe. They also need to show that they have put various measures and supports in place to improve his parenting capacity, which can be a long process in itself, especially given he seems articulate and able to defend himself. He will attack your own care of your child, as he’s already started to do - and social work will need to consider his allegations as much as they need to consider your concerns. Your daughter will need to be spoken to by social work about each allegation which will be distressing for her.

Simply put, if the concerns you’ve raised about him were instead raised about you, would you expect social work to remove your child from your care? Because that’s what you’re asking them to do and, for good reason, the threshold for removal is very high with lots of intervention along the way.

I’m not saying it’s fair, child protection is however a legal process with thresholds that need to be met, and the process is long, involved and intrusive for all concerned.

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:52

@Oblomov24 I have a few people I can talk to, but my solicitor bills are already insane for this small intervention and everything about this process is strange and frightening.

My ex was already threatening court, but I had been hoping to delay delay delay. Now it is probably inevitable and I look like a bad, emotionally abusive mother.

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Oblomov24 · 21/05/2024 07:49

Can you talk to anyone in RL? Just stop for a moment op. Wise up and remember to play the long game, cleverly. Don't do anything, don't spend any money. It probably will achieve little.
Unfortunately You have little evidence. And even if you did, If he's got any sense he'll play it all down. Then portray you as neurotic mother. Don't fall into the trap, as the stress will damage you the most.

Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:48

@Jellycatspyjamas sorry for the many posts 😳

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Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:48

@Jellycatspyjamas "You don’t have their report yet, so you don’t know what their assessment is. Parenting classes are a low key first stage intervention, that doesn’t mean they don’t believe you, or don’t have concerns."

You're right, I don't have the report yet. But why would I have the exact same things recommended as her father? This suggests they just view this as a petty squabble among parents.

(btw I have reported my post describing the exact act committed on the off chance my ex could see this thread - would you mind editing your post which describes it?)

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Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:43

@Jellycatspyjamas
"You can stop contact yourself, there’s no court order in place and it’s a much easier, less traumatic process for your child than going through a child protection process."

I am already at breaking point with stress and I will have to use all of our savings. How could a protracted and nasty legal battle (as it will be with my ex) possibly benefit anyone?

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Original poster

MadameDeLaRue · 21/05/2024 07:41

@Jellycatspyjamas I just can't believe that the expectation is that I have to spend all of my savings going to court to protect her myself.

Before there were signs that he is physically harming her, I had been trying really hard to keep this whole matter out of court because my ex is a malevolent liar and probably a psychopath and I was already fearful that no one would believe me. My planned strategy had been to delay as long as possible and then possibly to offer for him to have her on an extremely reduced schedule and not have to pay any maintenance. (Because that's why he wants more time).

Certainly my objective with this whole thing was not to be discredited (which certainly wouldn't help with court proceedings) and punished by going to parenting classes. I just reported because I had to, gave SS information as much information about her father's treatment of her as I could, and hoped they would intervene to protect her.

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boredybored · 21/05/2024 07:39

Will