To think that the mother/daughter duo who took Michaela to court should face some natural consequences?

Agree with this. I've worked in Muslim countries and religion-shaming of the less observant is a thing. Anecdotally, worse among women.

I rather hope the school finds itself at capacity when the mother attempts to enrol the sibling.

I have no issue with people following a religion, I have every issue with religions thinking that they can bully every fucker else into submission.

I agree that Muslim pupils should be allowed to pray as long as it does not interfere with their studies and also that more hardline Muslims do not pressurise other Muslims to do non haram extra curricular activities such as joining the school choir.

This is the danger here, the school already has a majority Muslim pupil attendance, the headteacher is, quite rightly concerned with the pressure some of the more observant Muslim pupils have over the less observant Muslim pupils. Presumably the headteacher is concerned that the more observant pupils may go the way of Shamima Begum and become so radical that they will follow Isis/Isil/whatever it's called now and then run away to Syria to practice terrorist activities. I agree that my last sentence sounds a bit extreme and it is really, but it's not far from the truth is it?

Already a pupil and her mother (seems to have been more her mother's choice to take this matter/case up with a solicitors firm) have been allowed to progress this case, and think that their religious beliefs and prayer amount of times a day matter more than education.

As people have said in the media, if the parents wished for a stricter religious school, they should've sent their children to a faith school. The only reason the girl's been sent her is because it's very strict and presumably within her family's catchment area.

I think the headteacher is brilliant. More and more schools are following her model of teaching, especially in deprived areas where this is desperately needed.

In France we have loads of faith (mostly Catholic) schools ?

In reality, laïcité (lay in English, or secular) is a myth, all schools and town halls etc. put up Christmas trees, lights, decorations.

The point is this girl wasn’t just quietly praying, she and her family were bullying and intimidating others and the “prayer” was just one manifestation of this.

there are some strands of Islamic extremism that aren’t interested in people quietly following their own faith - they are aggressive imposers on others - see Iran and Afghanistan at the moment as two examples. Also Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis.

the extent to which westerners, especially women, are determined that extremists’ rights be defended so they can strip everyone of theirs, is baffling.

I say this as someone from a family of very moderate Muslims.

The issue’s a very good ask. Rights do need regular airing and revision. To me it was entirely reasonable.

Case got muddied cos the girl who brought the challenge (wanting to pray in a secular space) unfortunately got busted in court for bullying and intimidation of children.

The bullying targets - children from moderate Muslim families - didn’t want to pray, they wanted lunch and a break. Their choice? Their right not to be pressured? Their rights entered the arena.

It’s a secular school. No religious observance allowed onsite. Parents know this.

So does secular mean secular? Law still says yes. Muslim law allows for it. Right to religious freedom undamaged.

Over half the school is Muslim, and that majority continues to grow - as the head says, the school practices unity policies, not separatist identity politics.

That's exactly what they were doing?

Yes. I think Michaela has handled this incredibly well tbh. This prayer thing was in protest and being done in their tiny playground that used to be a car park. The school has lots of Muslim kids and the other Muslim kids were being pressured and treated as lesser then because they weren't praying. Michaela hasn't released much details and I really respect them for it as they could've really made these 2 look like bullies.

This was never about prayer it was about disruption and bullying by a group of Muslim students who wanted to impose prayer and religious compliance on other pupils. The new rule was brought in to deal with that. Teachers were threatened as well as children.

"It sounds like the rule was introduced to protect students from each other."

I remember listening to the HT talking about this when the whole thing started. The point she made that stuck with me was that the pupil in question was bullying and intimidating other pupils. The girl who was coerced into leaving the choir had every right to be there and not be subjected to pressure from another pupil. It seems that the situation was getting out of control.
It is no different from any other sort of bullying IMO.
There are faith schools available if that is important to parents.

Precisely.

I'm not into religion and wouldn't send my kid to a school that affiliated with religion.
If I was then I'd send them to a religious school.
Kids need to do their lessons, and then socialise/do 'religious practices' on their breaks. They can't be taken out of class to do stuff that isn't curriculum based.

I know some girls who go there y10 and 6th form (they are also muslim, wear a hijab etc) and they eye-rolled about this. Said it was an ott girl/ mum. Rules are clear and its some sort of perfornance court case after falling out with the head, not really about prayers. Typical highly diverse school most parents of various faiths happy with it.

No, the school had always had the stance. The children asked for somewhere to pray and were told no as per the school policy. In defiance they decided to pray on their blazers en masse. School said that's not on so amended the policy to ban this. Previously this wasn't needed as people obeyed the policy and didn't work around it. This is also how why we have case law and not just statute law. Sometimes things have to be added to something that's already in place but becomes too general.

@Sandwichblock ah, interesting, so the LEA is just acting as a portal but the legwork is done by the individual schools. In any case, I did check Michaela's admissions policy and it didn't say anywhere that they can reject a pupil on the grounds that their parent is known to be a PITA, which was the suggestion in the PP I was replying to.

I see others have already answered your post, @Soigneur, but even in schools where the LA handles admissions I've known some who've been sent elsewhere because the Headteacher wouldn't have them ... as ever what happens in theory and what can occur when people speak to each other can differ

The school made a change to their policy that they did not agree with. A court ruled that the school had the right to impose that aspect. Life now goes on as normal

Unless this leads to more of the attacks the school have already reported, @KrisAkabusi ... which would be unfortunate

I'm atheist, I have no skin in this race but for what it's worth, I think everyone, including children, should have freedom to practise their religion as long as it doesn't harm others.

I think one of the problems was that the students who were praying in the playground were mocking other Muslim students who weren’t so strict.

Gosh it's depressing that 3/4 of of MN so far think they need to face 'further consequences'.

What do you mean OP? Flaming pitchforks at dawn?

Can you tell us where you get this information from please regarding this particular family?

Definitely. I had to do our school, it's a flipping awful job. Applications are still through the LA, but the school manages the process.

All schools taking in yr 7’s here do so via the Lea. Those that take from year 9 don’t have too.

@Sandwichblock Are you sure? I've never heard of state schools that manage their own admissions, regardless of being maintained or academies (perhaps grammars are different). Our junior and secondary are both academies and all admissions are managed by the local authority. I just checked Michaela's admissions policy and it too is managed by the local authority.

My middle child’s school has no outside space at all that is theirs. They share some green space with the local university basically. Children can go out on lunch supervised by staff. Pe is the minimum amount they can get away with doing.

They don’t seem to have any issues and my daughter has no complaints. Though when the uni has fun days often the children get to go and take part such as bouncy castles 😂

Every employer I have ever worked for has allowed prayer breaks and most had offices marked up as prayer rooms also. That's even with really shit employers.

I'm atheist, I have no skin in this race but for what it's worth, I think everyone, including children, should have freedom to practise their religion as long as it doesn't harm others.

They can wear hijab etc