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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not to negotiate my inheritance

109 replies

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 10:28

I need a hand hold and some advice please.My DM passed away last July after a battle with cancer. Im still grieving there isn't a day goes by that I don't think about her. I miss her so much.she was my best friend, confident and gave me unconditional love.I was blessed. We were joined at the hip.I took her to luncheon clubs, art clubs ,GP hospital appointment, shopping etc

Rewind 5 years ago and she 'gifted' me and my family a deposit for a larger house so she could move in with us.I had an extension made like a flat to accommodate her.

She took ill last February and it was down hill after that.My 2 brothers (lets call them Bill and Ben) came into ours lives after only visiting once or twice a year..

They asked about a Will and had she had made one.She had I was given 40% both Biil and Benn 30% ( I know very distasteful at this time in her life) they knew about the gift and said it was Ok. However they had the Will revised (unbeknown to mum, she agreed in the end that Ben instead of Bill and myself was executors. I was still one of the executors.

Fast forward 5 months when she had passed away and Ben couldn't wait to send it to probate.He didn't organise anything else.

Anyway legalities went through and I don't think it was what they had been planning (I think the solicitor knew what they were up to). To their dismay the 'gift' was included in the final distributions.Ben rang me and said I hadn't disclosed it. I said I had and he asked the probate manger proof or this.When received proof he suggested that I get back to her and say that I borrowed it ( the gift)He then asked probate to revalue the Will because it wasn't fair and claimed that he me and DM had had a conversation about early inheritance !!

All over Christmas he was messaging me saying he has now hired a booking ledger to look at 7 year statements (I presume he thinks I have been dipping in her account) I haven't.

It has been horendous no compassion I have been in bits.

All through this he is saying (in a very polite professional way he is just doing what an executor does) and wants to distribute the money evenly. Because I had the gift and it should be equal.

This point I am not communicating with him. Bill gets on and suggests a mediator with legal qualifications. I state I don't need one there is nothing to discuss the probate manger has confirmed twice that everything is in place and that signatures are needed.

Any way Ben won't sign the final documents and has threaten me( in a nice way) with the 7 year statements.His last message was 'no stone will go unturned' We need a mediation!'

Sorry it's so long thanks for reading I just needed to get this off my chest to see what you all think AIBU? It is effecting my wellbeing and I can't put mum to rest.

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 16/04/2024 18:12

I do agree that she gifted you the money but presumably you have also or will benefit from the increase in value of your home as well?

RavenhairedRachel · 16/04/2024 18:07

I really think your brother should take into consideration the years you cared for your mum .Put it this way if you hadn't been in a position to look after her and more so live with you then she may have ended up in residential care which could probably have eaten up all the inheritance. They should be grateful instead of coming out of the woodwork now and trying to take over.

AnnieSnap · 16/04/2024 18:07

YANBU and it seems like Ben is completely overlooking that your mother gave you the money for the bigger house in order than she could live with you. Her living with you no doubt led to you being far more involved in her care than your brother’s. Make sure your Solicitor realises that. I’m sorry you are being put through this. Even previously reasonable people so often get very grabby when there is an estate with money they could get their hands on.

Pixiedust88 · 16/04/2024 17:54

Unless your mom included a “hotchpot” and equalisation clause in her will to take into consideration the gift to you and reducing the amount of your inheritance your brother is being a d*ck. YANBU

Maybemaybeebee · 15/04/2024 22:56

I am so sorry for your loss op. This is what happened to a friend of mine when her DM died. They had a huge family fall out and now have little to no contact with each other. My friend also looked after her mum in the last year of her life but everything was split evenly which is fair enough.
Her DB had already taken a large amount of money from the mum and, as this was seen as a gift, it meant that the rest of the children had to pay 40% IHT on what was left of the estate before it was divided up. Whereas the DB had taken more money, used up the IHT allowance and had it tax free. I wonder if it is the effect the gift to you has on the inheritance tax for the rest of the estate which they feel is unfair?
Anyway, I can only wish you the best of luck. My friend’s whole family was blown apart and at one of the worst times of her life. I think it happens to a lot of families sadly.

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:52

Just checked and the taper relief on 5-6 years is 60% of the IHT rate of 40% so 16% of the amount of the gift IF the estate is liable to IHT.

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:49

@PropertyManager

That is why I said part of the gift as that is what taper relief is. I can't remember what the percentage is after 5 years which is when gift was given.

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 22:39

FreeTheBeast Yes* *I have tried to put myself in their shoes many times.I wasn't 'paid' to care for her ( she wasn't ill at the time) it was her decision that we had a better comfortable life being together. She wanted me to receive 50% I disagreed.Im wrapping up now Its too upsetting thanks again everyone who has supported me thank god for Mumsnet

OP posts:
PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 22:26

caringcarer · 15/04/2024 22:23

Point out to him your Mum made the gift to you in her lifetime. It was not a loan. If it had been a loan you and your Mum would have signed a loan agreement. He won't find one because there isn't one because it was a gift. The fact that your Mum left you more than her 2 sons proves she wanted you to have more. I don't understand how the will could be changed without her knowing though. How could she sign it? Who were the witnesses?

It could be changed post death, but then only with the consent of all named beneficiaries all signing to say they agree with the change. So I don't think it can have been changed.

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 22:24

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:11

Your brother is awful. You took care of your mum and had her live with you whereas it seems like he hardly even visited. He should be grateful he got anything. If the probate officer and you are sure it was a gift and not a loan then 40% of the estate is yours on top of the loan. Obviously if the estate is liable for inheritance tax then part of that gift needs to be included in the estate as she died within 7 years and that tax needs paying before it is split between you and your brothers. He is obviously trying to wear you down.

Worth reiterating that the gift's IHT will be subject to taper relief, it's not going to be the same level as any other aspects of the estate, so needs calculating on its own rather than just evenly sharing the bill!

caringcarer · 15/04/2024 22:23

Point out to him your Mum made the gift to you in her lifetime. It was not a loan. If it had been a loan you and your Mum would have signed a loan agreement. He won't find one because there isn't one because it was a gift. The fact that your Mum left you more than her 2 sons proves she wanted you to have more. I don't understand how the will could be changed without her knowing though. How could she sign it? Who were the witnesses?

FreeTheBeast · 15/04/2024 22:23

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 21:38

Just want to thank everyone who has supported me. I'm still grieving my DM But I am also (believe it or not) grieving my 2 brothers they have never been supportive but I have accepted this they had their own lives to live.However never in a million years did I think that they would value 40K each extra over me its heartbreaking.

I'm so sorry about your loss.

I've mixed feelings about this type of situation. I'm the one caring for my Mum and I'm the one that lives furthest away too. My Mum and I get on brilliantly but she doesn't get on as well with my siblings. I think that the right thing to do is for my Mum to split her inheritance equally and it's what she has put in her will. The thought of being 'paid' to care for her would not sit well with me.

You've said that you are sad your brothers are valuing their relationship with you at £40 but surely you can see that they might be thinking that you've valued your relationship with them at that value.

What was the reason you got 40% of the will compared to your brothers 30%. Surely that was obviously going to make your brothers feel bad. Did your Mum explain why she was doing it. Wasn't she worried that your brothers would feel like they weren't as important as you to her. The fact they have money is irrelevant.

Your brother sounds like he is acting like a dick but I can see reasons why your brothers might feel aggrieved.

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 22:22

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 22:11

Greyat agree post is a bit rambling I'm suffering from anxiety and grief. The gift was declared.I will be paying IHT.Nothing else has been given to me over the last seven years. I know what he is trying to achieve to make me feel guilty that I accepted a gift in the first place. The thing is they have always treated DM with what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own it's all horrible and disrespectful to my DM as stated above she would be mortified.

If it's been declared that's that, end of - they cannot vary the will and have to abide by it.

It will be tough, but I would simply stand your ground.

Also make sure you don't pay more IHT than you need, make sure all reliefs are claimed, especially taper relief on the gift.

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:11

Your brother is awful. You took care of your mum and had her live with you whereas it seems like he hardly even visited. He should be grateful he got anything. If the probate officer and you are sure it was a gift and not a loan then 40% of the estate is yours on top of the loan. Obviously if the estate is liable for inheritance tax then part of that gift needs to be included in the estate as she died within 7 years and that tax needs paying before it is split between you and your brothers. He is obviously trying to wear you down.

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 22:11

Greyat agree post is a bit rambling I'm suffering from anxiety and grief. The gift was declared.I will be paying IHT.Nothing else has been given to me over the last seven years. I know what he is trying to achieve to make me feel guilty that I accepted a gift in the first place. The thing is they have always treated DM with what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own it's all horrible and disrespectful to my DM as stated above she would be mortified.

OP posts:
PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 22:03

Greyat · 15/04/2024 21:43

He does need to include the gift in the Estate calculations because there may be inheritance tax to pay if she died within 7 years. That doesn't affect the value of the inheritance any of you gets now though, beyond any additional tax that may need to be deducted first.

Your post is a bit rambling, are you sure you've understood what he's trying to achieve? It is his duty as executor to identify any gifts that were distributed in her last 7 years.

Exactly this, the gift has to be declared, but is outside the scope of the will (if not referenced in it of course!)

So the percentages you receive can't change, but the gift may increase or create a tax charge, or indeed not.

The will has to be honoured unless it is legally changed, you can change, indeed completely re-write a will after death, its called a deed of variation, but you can only make such changes with the written consent of all the wills named beneficiaries.

ageratum1 · 15/04/2024 22:02

I have often heard of parents leaving more to their daughters than their sons because they are more likely to bear primary responsibility for the children in the case of a breakup and statistically less likely to earn as much

Greyat · 15/04/2024 21:43

He does need to include the gift in the Estate calculations because there may be inheritance tax to pay if she died within 7 years. That doesn't affect the value of the inheritance any of you gets now though, beyond any additional tax that may need to be deducted first.

Your post is a bit rambling, are you sure you've understood what he's trying to achieve? It is his duty as executor to identify any gifts that were distributed in her last 7 years.

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 21:38

Just want to thank everyone who has supported me. I'm still grieving my DM But I am also (believe it or not) grieving my 2 brothers they have never been supportive but I have accepted this they had their own lives to live.However never in a million years did I think that they would value 40K each extra over me its heartbreaking.

OP posts:
Okaaaay · 15/04/2024 19:27

Sorry this is happening to you OP. Very similar happened to my mum when her mum passed. Her brother started to question all sorts and ask for lots of information which strayed very very close to some hideous accusations (despite him doing virtually nothing for his mum for years). It was very unpleasant and distressing. My suggestion would be to disengage from him entirely. Perhaps state how distressing you are finding this, that you are satisfied that the will is legal, properly executed and was what your mum wished and that any further correspondence on the matter is to go through the executor or your solicitor. Greedy scum people who do this - money does awful things. Your lovely mum would be utterly horrified by their behaviour and would fully support you.

2catsandhappy · 15/04/2024 19:08

It is so sad @Needafriend14 that you will never be able to look at your db the same way again.
I hope he chokes on his money.

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 18:34

bottomsup12 · 15/04/2024 10:33

Your gift is to cover the expense of your mother living with you in her final days. They did not have the expense of building a livable space for your DM so they should factor that in.

If balancing the books, consider your gift and then also throw in the money spent for your granny Annexe to the calculation.

Just a word of caution to the OP, did she charge her mother rent AND declare it via self assessment.

If not the HMRC can view the mother had a beneficial interest in the daughters home, and in the absence of other figures consider a percentage 1/2 or 1/3 to be taxable to her estate for IHT.

The mums gifting of money, and living in the daughters home make it partly her home in the eyes of the tax man, called having a beneficial interest, and it counts as the deceaseds for IHT purposes.

Put simply, the gift has to be entered on IHT 400 and declared, and will be included in the tax calculation, that doesn't mean there is tax to pay, assuming transferable nil rates etc are in play.

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 18:27

Zyq · 15/04/2024 18:24

No, don't do any of this. The executors should be abiding by the strict terms of the will. If the brother won't sign documents, you'll need to apply to the court for him to be removed as executor.

If the mother lived in the space and it was paid for with her money, then HMRC will view her as having a beneficial interest and it will be included in her estate and must be reported in form IHT 400

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 18:25

BoneshakerBike · 15/04/2024 17:51

Your quote about the £325,000 is not right. What is says is

Any Inheritance Tax due on gifts is usually paid by the estate, unless you give away more than £325,000 in gifts in the 7 years before your death. Once you’ve given away more than £325,000, anyone who gets a gift from you in those 7 years will have to pay Inheritance Tax on their gift.

It does not say that If the gift was under £325,000 then it will be tax free anyway as you quote bur rather the tax is paid by the estate and not the receiver of the gift.

You can actually give away as much from your income as you want tax free but not from any capital. You need to keep careful documentation to proof this though.

Edited

Everyone gets 2 nil rate bands, the £325K tax free which applies to everything they own or gift and the residence nil rate band of £175K which applies only to property passed to direct decendents and is applied first.

To claim the second you have to complete a full accounting via form IHT 400, which is quite the epic form and micro analyses the deceased accounts

I wager the brother is doing IHT 400, which needs to be correct, and asks for info on gifts.

Zyq · 15/04/2024 18:24

bottomsup12 · 15/04/2024 10:33

Your gift is to cover the expense of your mother living with you in her final days. They did not have the expense of building a livable space for your DM so they should factor that in.

If balancing the books, consider your gift and then also throw in the money spent for your granny Annexe to the calculation.

No, don't do any of this. The executors should be abiding by the strict terms of the will. If the brother won't sign documents, you'll need to apply to the court for him to be removed as executor.

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