Does a child's mental health really improve if you take them out of school?

A child could get better but usuallY big changes need to be made such as a change of placement.

I think the answer to that question is very personal.

But what about school or the child would change that would make them struggle less over time.

If you have a clear idea that they will start this medication, this play therapist is starting to see progress and these things that were difficult about school are going to be adapted - you might think its worth supporting through a rough patch.

If you feel that there is no change on the horizon, you might feel differently about whether you can just ride it out and hope it spontaneously gets easier through some inner grit.

My DS is in year 11 at the moment.

Primary school was ok at times, difficult at others but he got through without too much of a negative impact.

Year 7 was difficult, lockdown was a relief and really improved his MH.

Year 8 was again hard, lockdown have some temporary relief. Going back for the remainder of year 8 broke him.
Year 9 he started a specialist independent school. He’s unrecognisable to the child he was in year 7. About to sit GCSEs and coping well.

Home Ed wouldn’t have worked for us because DS needs the distinction between home and school when it comes to learning. Mainstream broke him. The right school has improved his MH.

Surely it depends on why they weren't happy in school in the first place as well as what are you doing instead of school?

There's such a huge variety within that there can be no quick and easy answer.

I realise I didn't answer your original question - yes I think MH improves but I think it could improve with the right school placement for many of these children too.

A really big percentage of these children at least in the group I'm in are autistic (or suspected but not yet diagnosed). I have an autistic child who's doing relatively well and has lots of friends in a small independent school which has an autism specialism. She definitely wouldn't have managed in our local comprehensive. She would be happy to be home educated but it wasn't my first choice for her for a number of reasons so we tried school first. So IMO it depends on the school and the child - there are good schools out there for autistic children but not enough, and definitely not enough in the state sector either specialist or mainstream.

Definitely big fat YES.
My daughters suffered MH at school.. one began self harming.. other would throw herself down the stairs hoping to break a leg so she would have to go in.. this is 25 plus years ago.. l took them out n what an improvement.. they did their GCSE's and both got 7.
Four Grandsons all ASD.. .. school was awful for them.. masking at school.. every home time mental health meltdown..
Daughters took them out home educated.. one at UNI.. one at college.. two still be home educated.. mental health improved 100%.
Happy happy kids..
P.S. home education is sitting at the table doing school work every day.. it can meeting up with home Ed groups.
Visiting museums and libraries etc .
Walking in nature and collecting things then finding out all about them.
Cooking/ baking.
Going swimming etc .

My son still has mental health issues having been removed from a type of school that wasnt working.

First because the 'wrong school' did cause trauma for him and trauma doesnt just turn off the second you are out of a situation. Thats not how it works.

But also its fair to say even if he had been in the right environment from day one, he would have still had mental health issues arising from anxiety, which is part of hid ASD. It's just that these wouldn't triggered by school itself. It's not possible to aim for perfection, so having one more area that isnt contributing to poor mental health is a win.

I do think that there is a key point just before esba starts when a lot of pupils could be supported really well in school, as they will be giving warning signs, but they get missed. i think by the time esba has really set in, its very hard to address.

I took my son out of school when he was 9. He was diagnosed with autism and adhd at 8, after several years of "all kids do that, all kids are obsessed with things" (lamp posts though?) by teachers and SENCOs. Then when he was finally diagnosed they promised various things to help him which never materialised. Then he was bullied and the main bullies got the whole class to join in, even his only friend. Also staff at the school kept leaving, so he'd get used to a teacher only for them to leave, finally culminating in a brand new TA taking the class. He took it very personally that all these teachers were "leaving him" and I had tears at bedtime as well as meltdowns on leaving school every day because he'd been holding it all in all day.

Once I took him out the meltdowns virtually stopped, he stopped anxiously chewing his clothes to bits and he made new friends almost immediately among the home ed community.

He's 16 now and at college and getting on really well doing a subject he's been interested in since he was young, also doing stuff outside of college and volunteering.

It's definitely made a huge difference to his mental health and I'm glad I was able to home educate him - I know not everyone has that choice.

I'm also not anti school as my other kids have thrived in school.

this resonates with me.

One of my daughters had a terrible time in year 9 with school refusal. Lots of daily negotiations/arguments about her going/not going and nightly “I feel sick” complaints. I still don’t really know what happened but it was shit. She’s not autistic but she is intense at times,

There was psychology involvement (we live in Aus, so easier to access, perhaps) but she refused to engage. In retrospect it was maybe just a whole heap of teen stuff all at once (skin, friends, decisions about competitive sport etc). Seeing a dermatologist was helpful because once her skin cleared she seemed happier. I’m biased, but she was/is a very conventionally attractive girl and it’s possible that her skin deteriorating affected her more than I thought.

Anyway, two years on and she’s great. Loves school, engaged with everything, happy to go. She’s also very bright and her school has experienced maths and physics teachers who are well beyond what I could manage now (or ever, to be honest). Through the school she’s pursuing doing her first year of uni physics early.

A few years ago she was so unhappy about going and it was such a battle that I did consider home Ed but I’m pleased we didn’t pursue it.

I have spoken about my DC who was a school refuser, all the way through their primary years. Pretty much, every single day, there was a degree of push-back, about going into school. Some days a gentle, on your way, was enough but other days, I had to take DC through the office with someone to take an upset DC. I tried every technique (going to Breakfast Club being the best option), but I didn't let my DC stay at home when they refused.

They are now at secondary and are thriving. They also have two friends, from school who are refusers one is home-schooled and the other barely makes 2 days a week. I am worried about contagion. I have worked so hard to build resiliance in my DC which IS paying off now...not sure what to think about it all tbh.

Indeed. It must be incredibly tough for people in your situation. I have profound sympathy and don't want to minimise this at all. But I do feel a lot of rhetoric that roughly translates as "school is bad and you are abusing your kids by not removing them" is heavy handed and a bit cultish.

Legally you do not have to wait for an ed pysc. Your council
are pulling a fast one.

Dd’s EHCP assessment started on 21st October. We had EahVP issued by 22md Dec. Saw (fantastic) Ed pysch on 1st Dec.

And @MoominPyjamas it certainly isn't your fault - it's the fault of this government and teachers who refuse to think outside the box.

The fact that she is 3 academic years behind shows that the school is failing to meet her needs. I hear this all the time about ND children who start school, clearly very able children and end up years behind because the school environment and teaching approaches are wrong for them. It makes me angry.

@MoominPyjamas sorry your DD is having such a hard time - the short answer to your question is that removing your DD from school may improve her MH, it may make her MH worse, or it might not affect it at all (possibly by improving it in some ways, and making it worse in others, so balancing it out).
Ignore anyone who accuses you of not doing the best for your child though, just because something worked (or didn't) for them does not mean it will be the same for you and your DD.

School is not right for every child - it just isn't. Society is brainwashed to feel that if children don't go to school, you are failing them as a parent. I would disagree.

As a ND person myself, I had years of trauma at school being bullied because I was different. My parents moved me to a girls school where I was much happier. But private schools can be quite pressured so that's not always the answer either.

I have a ND 15 year old whom I took out of school when she was 13. She wasn't being bullied but she would get herself into a terrible state, worried about things in her environment like the fire alarm and the sheer volume of students. She is now enrolled in an NVQ equestrian course at the yard where she rides and she has never been happier. She's brilliant at riding and has blossomed since starting this course.

I'm suspicious of the binary nature of this debate which I think is quite dangerous.

Very clearly there are children who don't do well in a school environment and HE has saved the lives of some, probably. There absolutely is a place for it, particularly with ND children.

But the blanket idea that school is bad and parents who keep their children in school are abusing them is profoundly wrong in my view. There are nuances which are being missed in this discussion. To name some that spring to my mind:

Firstly, it's not automatically true that allowing people to avoid something which causes them anxiety is a good thing. Sometimes it is essential. But sometimes learning to face and conquer the anxiety is ultimately a strengthening thing. I've gone through periods of really hating school, as has my DD. Ultimately, I've emerged stronger from having to push through them.

I am thankful never to have dealt with school refusal (yet). I don't want to minimise how tough this is and I know it's incredibly painful and difficult. But I do think that it's one of those things, like suicide, which can be catching. The more children become aware that other children are allowed to dodge school, the more they are allowed to feel that it is normal. While I think children who can't face school need to be treated with kindness and dignity, there has to be a red line and an understanding that it can't become a new normal.

For better or worse, school prepares you for adulthood in some way. Very few children are going to be able to avoid some sort of pressures, deadlines, friction in the workplace. For children for whom this is completely insurmountable, such as those who are ND or those who have been badly bullied it is cruel to force them into an environment where they are going to be bullied and judged. But I'm not sure it sends a great message to children that they can avoid things in life because they cause them anxiety and difficulty. At some point that protection is going to come to an end and having to face the cold reality of the world in your mid to late 20s after having been shielded from competition and friction is not great in my view.

For most children in most circumstances I believe school is a net positive. I totally understand why parents of children who have really struggled would feel quite dogmatic about the benefits of HE. But I think we ought to be careful of poisoning the well of perception for the broad mass of people.

She says: "The real solution is to help the young person break down what is scaring them, and help them face things gradually and kindly, step by step. The solution is to help young people see that the label of anxiety is a starting point to challenging themselves and being brave, not an endpoint that will dictate their limitations for ever."

Anyone asked for advice and information during the EHCNA must respond within 6 weeks. If the LA is not going to issue, they must inform you by week 16. If they are going to issue, they must do so by week 20 and in order to do that should send a draft by week 14.

A ‘waiting list’ and lack of EP time is not a lawful excuse for not comply with the legislation. If the LA cannot assess in-house within the statutory timescales, they should commission an independent assessment.

Email the LA reminding them of the statutory timescales. If that doesn’t work email the Director of Children’s Services informing them if they don’t act ASAP (if they have already breached the timescales) or breach the statutory timescales (if they haven’t already) you will be forced to pursue judicial review proceedings. Then, if that doesn’t work, you will need a pre-action letter now/when the LA breaches the timescales.

Structure can happen without school too. As can friendships. If a DC is unable to attend school, they don’t need to be isolated or lacking structure (although some actually no p/little structure in order to meet their needs).

@theresapossuminthekitchen thanks yes this was the article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/09/psychologist-anxiety-personality-trait-children-sick

Is your DD primary or secondary?

You say that she is three academic years behind.

If that is in primary, then in general the children although they are aware of academic differences don't consider them very important. Most children are socially included (children with violent behaviour tend to be an exception to this) and considered part of the class and have friends.

This is not the case at secondary. Many secondaries now have mixed attainment in year 7 but the process of sats in year 6 makes many children who are behind feel like failures and this is obvious to the rest of the class as well. Everyone in the class will be aware of the academics and that the teachers and parents consider it important.

In secondary it is obvious who is behind (they don't do languages, they do extra maths and English, they are taken out of tutor time for extra lessons). This is socially very difficult and most kids react badly.

As it gets towards GCSEs as well many teachers will be saying how important it is to pass GCSEs and that you don't get a good job if you don't get good GCSEs. Kids who are going to fail their GCSEs know they are going to fail their GCSEs and they know that they are destined for a life of shit badly paid jobs because their teachers tell them so.

So ND kids (and NT kids) who are behind really struggle with their mental health at secondary because the whole system is set up to tell them they are a failure.

So pleased for you that you found the right spot for your daughter vidflex

I had a similar experience during the pandemic. My ASD dd loved being at home at first but got more and more depressed and isolated as time went on.