Prostitute checked into our hotel!

WHO CARES?!

I have sex with my husband in every hotel we stay in. Multiple times. Do you have an issue with that?

Why do you have an issue with a woman who's staying at a hotel having sex? Unless she's forcing you to watch, then it's none of your business.

They won’t be in prison though will they ? Because current UK law only criminalises the selling of sex, not the purchasing of it. So the prostitutes are subject to repeated prosecutions for basically the same type of offence, which can result in a permanent record affecting, among other things, job opportunities should they escape prostitution. The only way to prosecute a man for purchasing sex is if can be proven that the woman was trafficked and forced into prostitution. Realistically the worst that can happen to a man is a summary fine if they kerb crawl and in most cases there are ways around that too.

If all prostitution is rape then all clients are rapists. There are, today, 17240 escorts advertising on Adultwork, just one site. If each has had 10 clients that makes 172400 men who should, by your logic, be in prison. Where will you put them? The UK prison population in June 2023 was 95,526 and the prisons are full.

I kind of agree, because I think there aren’t many situations where a woman would choose prostitution - social and economic pressures are always there and are their own forms of coercion. But I accept that there are women who have the agency to choose.

But it’s not, is it? It’s accessible to a wide range of women, most of whom don’t agree with you.

Actually I was. If this discussion were in the feminist board most posters would say the same.

You have made a lot of assumptions but I don't understand why you were bothered. If she was/is a sex worker, she won't be doing anything weird in front of other hotel guests and any children staying there will have no idea anyway. Why worry? Live and let live. Some hotels will let rooms at an hourly rate for that purpose.

There was a dramatisation about a young woman who was snatched from the street in London several years ago, and trafficked.
I cannot remember what it was called but it was based on real events.
It was horrifying.
She was Eastern European from what I recall and working as a nanny for wealthy parents.
She wore glasses because I remember the traffickers took her glasses and she couldn’t see very well. They also took her belongings and passport.

To summarise she was moved about regularly and repeatedly prostituted.
She told the men who were raping her that she did not consent and that she had been abducted from the streets. Not one single one of them stopped. They all had sex with her (raped her.)
With several of the less violent , seemingly more reasonable men she begged them to help her escape.
One of them drove her away after she pleaded with him to just drop her off anywhere so she could seek help. He then had a change of mind and drove her straight back to the pimp.
You can imagine how that went.
I think eventually someone must have tipped off the authorities as that is how she was eventually found and released.
The whole thing was incredible.
That this could happen right here is disgusting.
The men who use prostitutes absolutely do not care if the women and children are there if their own free will.

Well said 👏🏻

This thread wasn't supposed to be about the rights and wrongs (and there are plenty of wrongs) of prostitution. It was supposed to be whether someone suspected by the OP of being a sex worker checking into an hotel.

If the OP’s assumption was right, surely a safer environment than on the streets.

@Lovelysausagedogscrumpy

So because the statistics of the incidence of trafficking into prostitution is inaccurate this means that we shouldn’t be concerned with the welfare of those women and girls who are being exploited ?

No, I didn’t make that leap. I’m simply pointing out that comments from PPs saying things like “Well over 60% prostituted women are either trafficked or forced into prostitution due to drug dependency” is inaccurate and there is little evidence for this statistic.

I agree with the rest of your post.

So because the statistics of the incidence of trafficking into prostitution is inaccurate this means that we shouldn’t be concerned with the welfare of those women and girls who are being exploited ?

There have been several reports from EU countries in the interim stating that forced prostitution as a result of human trafficking is on the rise. The reports warn against language which seeks to normalise the buying and selling of sex as a commercial ‘trade’ and advocate that the way forward in tackling the issue is to de-criminalise the selling of sex and at the same time criminalise the purchasing of it.

In this way, vulnerable women and girls are not repeatedly processed through the criminal justice system for the same types of offences (which can remain on record many years after they have escaped forced prostitution and can be a barrier to future employment) and men are discouraged from purchasing sex because they can be held criminally responsible for it.

The idea of criminalising the purchase of sex was mooted in 2007 but so far the only change to the law is to criminalise purchasing the services of those women subsequently proved to have been forced into prostitution. Prosecutions under this law remain persistently low, and kerb crawling is still only a summary offence carrying a fine - which can be sidestepped in many circumstances.

Yep. So what’s your point ? You’re the one who quoted it.

I agree we should not normalise the selling of sex.

Regarding the hotel referenced by the OP, are they even taking some basic steps to ensure that their premises are not being used for prostitution, or having a process whereby staff with reasonable grounds can report a suspicion?

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/64627/pdf/

1Cusick, Campbell, Kinnell & Brooks-Gordon (2009) “Wild guesses and conflated meanings: Estimating the size of the sex worker population in Britain” Critical Social Policy
2 Melrose, M. (2002), Ties that bind - Young People and the Prostitution Labour Market in
Britain presented at Fourth Feminist Research Conference, Bologna: September 2000
3 Benson, C. and Matthews, R. (1995), Street prostitution: Ten facts in search of a policy in International Journal of Sociology of the Law, Vol. 23, pp395-415
4 Benson, C. and Matthews, R. (1995), Street prostitution: Ten facts in search of a policy in International Journal of Sociology of the Law, Vol. 23, pp395-415
5 Home Office (2004). Paying The Price
6 ibid
7 Independent Domestic Violence Advocates: information briefing. Prostitution and domestic violence’ (December 2010) Published by AVA
8 Home Office (2004). Paying The Price
9 ibid
10 Melrose, M. (2002), Ties that bind - Young People and the Prostitution Labour Market in
Britain presented at Fourth Feminist Research Conference, Bologna: September 2000
11 May, T. and Hunter, G. (2006). Sex work and problem drug use in the UK: the links, problems and possible solutions. In R. Campbell and M. O'Neill (eds.). Sex work now. Cullompton: Willan
12 May, T. and Hunter, G. (2006). Sex work and problem drug use in the UK: the links, problems and possible solutions. In R. Campbell and M. O'Neill (eds.). Sex work now. Cullompton: Willan
13 Salfati, C. G. (2009). Prostitute Homicide: An Overview of the Literature and Comparison to Sexual and Non-Sexual Female Victim Homicide
14 Tackling Street Prostitution: Towards an holistic approach, Marianne Hester and Nicole Westmarland University of Bristol, Home Office (2004)

It is referencing the Home Office Report from 2004 for it’s government and met police statistics. The same ones discussed in the Guardian article.

You didn’t post a link to the report, so not sure which one you’re referring to. If it’s the same report that this submission was made to, then it’s not the same one as the Guardian 2009 article, because Agenda are quoting from studies from 2011 through to 2016.

then what did you want to do with him

Yes I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about the people who say all prostitution is rape.

Exactly! And the same statistics are still being banded around as facts when they are not. Check out the sources listed in the Parliamentary report I was referring to. It is the same sources discussed in the Guardian article.

These statistics are old and highly inaccurate.

No. Women who have been forced into prostitution as well as under age girls, by definition do not give consent. That’s the difference. Of course any woman can decide for herself that she wants to engage in prostitution - if she has agency over her own decisions, that’s on her. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. Women who are trafficked are not giving consent, they’re being forced into it to pay their debts.

The article you’re linking to is 14 years old !!

Yes!!!

There are very few facts in that report and a lot of estimates from the Home Office and Met Police which can’t be completely replied upon. The scale of trafficking in the UK is notoriously difficult to quantify.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

No that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course I know that trafficking happens in prostitution, that many prostitutes are drug addicts and have a history of sexual abuse. I find it morally repugnant to have sex with these women.
However, whenever there's a discussion about porn or prostitution there are many, many women who say that most of these women are trafficked, that you can't buy consent, that all sex with a prostitute or a porn star is rape. I just don't agree. An adult women can choose to have sex with a man for money. She can give consent. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. People are literally saying a woman is unable to consent if she takes payment.

I have a 10 year old as well and they know what sex work is. I don't remember how the discussion came to be, but they asked and I answered in an age-appropriate way.