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to think the Carer's Allowance scandal shows the uncaringness of the DWP

228 replies

cakeorwine · 13/04/2024 08:17

In a nutshell - if you get Carer's Allowance, you are supposed to only claim it if you earn below a certain amount. If you go over that amount, you can't claim it.

If you go over that amount and don't tell the DWP, you have to pay it back. But say you went over by 30 p. you would have to pay back not 30p but ALL of it.

The DWP know if you have earnt over the amount. But they don't tell you. They let it build up. And then prosecute you.

‘They’re heartless’: how one woman fell victim to the carer’s allowance trap | Carers | The Guardian

"On weekends when her daughter stays with her father, Moon worked part-time at Tesco earning £9.50 an hour. This would comfortably keep her under the earnings threshold of £127 a week at the time, especially when deducting allowances for fuel and pension payments – or so she thought.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) contacted Moon in 2019 to say she had breached the earnings limit and would need to pay back every penny – or she would be taken to court.
Moon, terrified, contacted Citizens Advice for help. It analysed her payslips going back to July 2016, when she started work at Tesco, and found that – even on the strictest understanding of the DWP’s rules – she had exceeded the earnings limit by about £3 most of those weeks. Some weeks it was as little as 50p over.
She appealed for clemency but the DWP refused to budge. It refused her offer to pay back the amount she was not entitled to – about £800 over the course of three and a half years.
Instead, she would have to pay back every penny of carer’s allowance over that period – known as the DWP’s “cliff edge”. It amounted to £11,292.75 – plus an additional £50 civil penalty."

And the DWP response:

“Claimants have a responsibility to inform DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could impact their award, and it is right that we recover taxpayers’ money when this has not occurred.”

‘They’re heartless’: how one woman fell victim to the carer’s allowance trap

Karina Moon, who is sole carer for her daughter most of the week, was told she needed to repay £11,292.75 or be prosecuted for fraud

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/how-one-woman-fell-victim-carers-allowance-trap-karina-moon

OP posts:
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Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:20

I do think there is different situations for many when it comes to carers though. There is a massive difference in being a care for a dependent child than it is for an adult, as there is other benefits that help in terms of having a disabled child so if you can’t work at all it is helpful
where as if your a carer to an adult it’s very different as it’s basically carers allowance and normal benefits.

MountCaramel · 13/04/2024 12:19

MountCaramel · 13/04/2024 08:28

People don't realise that if you don't qualify for carers allowance, you're most likely to be eligible for carers credit. The DWP definitely won't tell you this so many people fall into the carers allowance cap trap.

https://www.gov.uk/carers-credit

Just posting this again in case people earn over the limit for carers allowance they can claim for carers credit.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 13/04/2024 12:19

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:11

It’s not hours worked but how much you can earn a week which I then obviously effects the amount of hours you can work

but it doesn’t make much sense because someone who is on minimum wage can work more hours then say someone on a higher paid role so it doesn’t really match hours earned.

the increase in how much you can earn has gone up with minimum wage.

Thank you. Sorry I disagree re bit abut "not fair" if you are on "min or higher income"

As it is income based, so it is fair

What is the max you can earn a week and is it net or gross pay?

x2boys · 13/04/2024 12:19

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:13

For a child on high rate disability the UC system is 100 percent better off
it just evens it out more.
we never received incoke support carers premium so maybe I was robbed there 😂😂
I’m not on either anymore but when I switched to UC from the old system I was over 100.00 better off in terms of the carers and disability payments.

Edited

We have just switched over ,my son gets HRC and HRM ,we have had a few teething problems though ,so I can't say yet whether we will be better off under UC or tax credits .

doppelganger2 · 13/04/2024 12:18

I wrote that yesterday already. I don't think this is the real scandal around CA.

The low pay is and it is a real shame that the Guardian (who writes articles about those poor souls on 60k who struggle to survive these days) didn't pick that one.

You need to care for 35h at least (most of use do far more). That works out at 2.34 per hours. It's the lowest weekly benefit in the UK. We don't get sick pay, no holiday, no pension, no nothing. It should be paid at least at NNW for the 35h. How on earth is anyone supposed to survive in Carers Allowance? It's an incredibly hard role and we bring so many sacrifices. Why is there no outcry how carers are treated in this country? How can we possibly be on with it as a society?

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:18

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:15

I said carer premium. Not disability premium.

It isn’t as cut and dried as saying someone with a child on HRC is better off on UC. That doesn’t apply to all (discounting TP).

The earning limit for carer’s allowance has not gone up in line with minimum wage

it is going up my point being that
when minimum wage was going up and the carers allowance allowance not it made mistakes like this happen because those who were working minimum wage and hours that matched the allowance but then minimum wage increase the same wage would take them over
they are now increasing the amount you can earn as from April which will help with that situation.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 13/04/2024 12:17

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:13

It is not about how many hours you work. Earnings are also not cut and dried because it is earnings after tax, NI and certain expenses, which means it isn’t always simple to work out and expenses can be disallowed after thousands of pounds of overpayments have already built up.

Thanks, you mean "not simple to work out" if you are on PAYE and get a pay slip every week/month?

Or are you talking solely re self-employed who can take expesnes etc and have to manage their own income status?

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:15

I said carer premium. Not disability premium.

It isn’t as cut and dried as saying someone with a child on HRC is better off on UC. That doesn’t apply to all (discounting TP).

The earning limit for carer’s allowance has not gone up in line with minimum wage

Parsley1234 · 13/04/2024 12:14

I worked for the DWP in covid after doing my 3 businesses in the shitshow that was. A more lazy unintelligent crowd of woke twits I never had the misfortune to be amongst. I did the best for my claimants but sadly most work coaches not do much terrible situations

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:13

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:11

Income support has a carer premium.

For a child on high rate disability the UC system is 100 percent better off
it just evens it out more.
we never received incoke support carers premium so maybe I was robbed there 😂😂
I’m not on either anymore but when I switched to UC from the old system I was over 100.00 better off in terms of the carers and disability payments.

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:13

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 13/04/2024 12:09

Hi

I've heard bits about this but find it hard to understand
Therefore, in simple English, when someone gets the CA - the condtions attached to it that you have to read and agree - what do they say re max hours worked and max earnings and what is your responsibility?

NB: To be absolutely clear, I am not having a go at anyone but want to be clear as when I worked, I was never a benefits advisor but i knew bits about carers allowance and it me it felt unfair, EG if you were retired and a carer for a disabled OH, you got zero as a carer I think if mem serves me well. Then there was something re max hours you could work - possibly all changed a si left work about ten yrs ago aged just over 50

It is not about how many hours you work. Earnings are also not cut and dried because it is earnings after tax, NI and certain expenses, which means it isn’t always simple to work out and expenses can be disallowed after thousands of pounds of overpayments have already built up.

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:11

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:07

@Headfirstintothewild i do find the UC carers element fairer, than the old system.

but only if the person obviously can claim UC

It does even it out slightly

when I was on full benefits ( daughter severely disabled ) on the old system

you would get
carers allowance and then it deducted from your income support.

where as now it still gets deducted from UC but there is also a UC carers element so it evens it out slightly more.

Income support has a carer premium.

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:11

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 13/04/2024 12:09

Hi

I've heard bits about this but find it hard to understand
Therefore, in simple English, when someone gets the CA - the condtions attached to it that you have to read and agree - what do they say re max hours worked and max earnings and what is your responsibility?

NB: To be absolutely clear, I am not having a go at anyone but want to be clear as when I worked, I was never a benefits advisor but i knew bits about carers allowance and it me it felt unfair, EG if you were retired and a carer for a disabled OH, you got zero as a carer I think if mem serves me well. Then there was something re max hours you could work - possibly all changed a si left work about ten yrs ago aged just over 50

It’s not hours worked but how much you can earn a week which I then obviously effects the amount of hours you can work

but it doesn’t make much sense because someone who is on minimum wage can work more hours then say someone on a higher paid role so it doesn’t really match hours earned.

the increase in how much you can earn has gone up with minimum wage.

doppelganger2 · 13/04/2024 12:11

x2boys · 13/04/2024 10:40

They do make it extremely clear how much you can earn before you lose your carer,s allowance i have been claiming it for past 8/9,it is very clear 9nnall correspondence the amount you can earn and you also have to declare it for tax/ universal credit purposes

I'm not sure how this is un anyway comparable to the post office scandal.

It's only that simple if you don't work or earn under the threshold. I can only assume you don't work.

I earned above for years but due to my pension contributions and childcare fees fell under the threshold. My childcare fees would vary so I had to fill in complicated spreadsheets every months and got my CA in arrears several weeks after it was due. I am financially pretty clued up. I can totally understand how others in a similar situation struggle and things slip through. Sone of us just cannot survive on CA and need to earn as close to the threshold as possible. the system is a total mess. I found it all too stressful that I stopped claiming it altogether as I have a job but only earn a bit above (potentially, with pension contributions I would fall under the threshold) but I am just too stressed and worried about a 'fraudulent' claim.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 13/04/2024 12:09

Hi

I've heard bits about this but find it hard to understand
Therefore, in simple English, when someone gets the CA - the condtions attached to it that you have to read and agree - what do they say re max hours worked and max earnings and what is your responsibility?

NB: To be absolutely clear, I am not having a go at anyone but want to be clear as when I worked, I was never a benefits advisor but i knew bits about carers allowance and it me it felt unfair, EG if you were retired and a carer for a disabled OH, you got zero as a carer I think if mem serves me well. Then there was something re max hours you could work - possibly all changed a si left work about ten yrs ago aged just over 50

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:08

The cost of care is huge
we now get 50 hours funded and that costs 4.5 k a month but most don’t have this.
so now I know I can work when the carers are with daughter but it costs the state 4.5 k a month.

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:07

@Headfirstintothewild i do find the UC carers element fairer, than the old system.

but only if the person obviously can claim UC

It does even it out slightly

when I was on full benefits ( daughter severely disabled ) on the old system

you would get
carers allowance and then it deducted from your income support.

where as now it still gets deducted from UC but there is also a UC carers element so it evens it out slightly more.

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:04

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:01

Yes but see that’s the thing so they get it in one hand and out the other it’s not classed as earned income - fair enough but most of those families are saving the government a lot of money in care costs.
so it increases by 5.00 something and then most will have it deducted anyway 🙈

I agree, many do save the state a fortune, but your post was about it being taxable yet deducted £ for £. I was explaining it isn’t about it being taxable. Some other taxable income is also deducted £ for £.

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:01

Yes but see that’s the thing so they get it in one hand and out the other it’s not classed as earned income - fair enough but most of those families are saving the government a lot of money in care costs.
so it increases by 5.00 something and then most will have it deducted anyway 🙈

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 12:00

I have re checked and it is going up so I apologise but the initial announcement did say it wouldn’t be but the amount you were allowed to earn would increase
I am glad they are increasing it.

Headfirstintothewild · 13/04/2024 12:00

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 11:47

They don’t care about carers
if was was the only benefit not to get a increase this April every other benefit went up with inflation apart from carers allowance 🙈

they also class it as a taxable income in every way but then have diff rules regarding things like other benefits.
carers has always been dedicated 1.00 for 1.00 of your other benefits but other taxable income your allowed to earn a certain amount before deductions.

from that post what also Is horrible is she wouldn’t have getting full carers allowance anyway as she would have been on some other form of benefits meaning it was already deducted from her overall payment.

CA has increased for 24/25.

The reason CA is deducted £ for £ from UC rather than subject to the earnings taper is because it is classed as unearned income. It isn’t about it being taxable or not. Some other forms of taxable income is also classed as unearned income, too.

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 11:57

x2boys · 13/04/2024 11:54

Its increased by £5.15 / week
Yes its ,not loads but don't state things that are not true.

We were specifically told that it was not increasing the only thing increasing was the amount you were allowed to earn to claim not the amount you receive. If I was told wrong then I apologise but that’s the info as carers we received. I will see when ours come in on Monday

x2boys · 13/04/2024 11:54

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 11:47

They don’t care about carers
if was was the only benefit not to get a increase this April every other benefit went up with inflation apart from carers allowance 🙈

they also class it as a taxable income in every way but then have diff rules regarding things like other benefits.
carers has always been dedicated 1.00 for 1.00 of your other benefits but other taxable income your allowed to earn a certain amount before deductions.

from that post what also Is horrible is she wouldn’t have getting full carers allowance anyway as she would have been on some other form of benefits meaning it was already deducted from her overall payment.

Its increased by £5.15 / week
Yes its ,not loads but don't state things that are not true.

checkedshirts · 13/04/2024 11:53

Wakemeup20 · 13/04/2024 11:47

They don’t care about carers
if was was the only benefit not to get a increase this April every other benefit went up with inflation apart from carers allowance 🙈

they also class it as a taxable income in every way but then have diff rules regarding things like other benefits.
carers has always been dedicated 1.00 for 1.00 of your other benefits but other taxable income your allowed to earn a certain amount before deductions.

from that post what also Is horrible is she wouldn’t have getting full carers allowance anyway as she would have been on some other form of benefits meaning it was already deducted from her overall payment.

I thought it did go up with inflation by 6.7% from from £76.75 to £81.90 (it's still an absolute pittance though and disgraceful that it's supposed to replace a wage)

GoldenSpraint · 13/04/2024 11:53

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