To worry about my kid's intelligence?

You sound great and I think working with the school to identify specific support needs is a good idea.

Specifically on the reading, have a think about the way you read together. I used to read loads with my son, but I would read 'at' him and just expected him to pick it up. He had a great vocabulary at 5, but I was quite surprised when I realised how little he was sometimes understanding of the stories. I would switch back to picture books with her. Rather than asking her comprehension questions, which might just stress her out, take time to explain the book as you go along. E.g. pick a word you think she might not know and talk about the meaning; summarise what has happened on the page and then get her to guess what happens next or ask how she thinks the characters might feel.

I’m a speech and language therapist and my immediate thought was this was more language related than intelligence related, definitely reach out to the local speech and language therapy team and see if they can assess her.

Ex reception teacher here. It definitely sounds like she has a learning delay and needs extra support. She will be one of the lower ability children in the class. This doesn’t necessarily mean that she will always need extra support, although for many at this level at this point in reception, they will require this support all the way through school. It could just be a low maturity level - some seem very behind at this stage but pick up quickly in Year 1 or beyond. I once taught a lad in Year 3 who started the year at Year 1 level in numeracy and finished the year in the top set, working at year 4-5 level. I’d like to claim in was my super teaching skills but really he just had a massive maturity leap and his understanding of a lot of concepts suddenly clicked into place.

In the grand scheme of things, if she’s a happy child who behaves well (not perfectly! I wouldn’t expect that from any 5 year old) and has good friendships, then I would focus on those positives and just gently support her with her learning. However, if there are other things amiss such as difficulty making friends, following basic instructions, hearing, seeing clearly, coordination, toileting issues, meltdowns and so on, it may point to a larger issue. Keep talking to the staff at school as they will be carefully monitoring her and will report any other concerns quickly if you’re open and approachable.

Things you can do to help her:

Ask lots of open questions (day to day life and when reading books and watching tv). This really helps to develop comprehension in reading and also of general events. What do you think will happen? Why? What should they do to help? Has anything like that happened to you? Can you tell me about it? How do you think they are feeling? Why?

work on the name writing - have a little go every day. Try and work out if she’s not recognising the letter or if it’s a motor skill issue. If she needs to build up the strength and control to write, google early years fine manipulative skill activities and gross motor skill activities for loads of ideas to help with this.

Can she count objects or just recite numbers in order? She should be able to reliably count up to around 10 objects With no miscounts and without missing any out at this stage. Have a go at that. If she struggles, work with amounts within 5 rather than 10.

Im sure you do loads of stuff like this already but lots of activities like baking, arty stuff, junk modelling, play dough etc - do them with her and chat all the way through with her, describing what you’re doing and encouraging her to do the same.

Good luck. She sounds like a lovely girl and a happy child so don’t worry too much.

Btw I don’t want to dismiss posts of additional needs but I also think take with a pinch of salt and consider the whole picture of your own child, I’ve done some cover in reception classes this year and what you’ve described is very much 50% of the class, some of them have additional needs and some don’t.
Ask your DDs class teacher if she suspects any additional need by all means, they spend a lot of time with different children and will have a good idea if the symptoms are there but I wouldn’t pin it just down to that yet without speaking to teacher first.

What @Georgie743 said.

but add, as others have said, it's nothing to do with intelligence

Not read all posts yet so apologies if already mentioned.

At her age you need to foster the love for learning/reading etc, chapter books probably aren’t very interesting, no pictures or colours etc so she’s not taking it in all that well. Scale back to picture books, Julia Donaldson type stories, that way when she looks at the pictures in those stories she is learning how to link the text to pictures - and can then go on to visualise when reading chapter books.

I can’t find it now but read a post that said along the lines of in children 80% of new brain synapses are developed during play, only 10% are developed through traditional learning methods

Writing is tricky at her age…..lots will be doing it but lots also won’t be, it takes a lot of skill, remembering the letters needed, sounding out, remembering the formation of letters, concentrating on holding the pencil, holding body up to sit (don’t underestimate how hard this is for some children), concentrating and blocking out distractions.

Ask school about results of any tests, baseline, speech and language link (language link score is a very good indicator and is based on exact age so if shes only just 5 score will reflect that).

Five minute mum on FB/Insta is great for games and ideas to support learning, I’ve got her book and it’s helped my DC loads lately with boosting their learning.

She is way to young to worry about “intelligence”, she’s 5!

The school voicing concerns is because she may be a little behind in some areas for her age. If she’s sociable and happy and plays with other children nicely that’s a huge indicator that she’s going to do absolutely fine in life (even if some areas of learning are more challenging for her).

You sound like lovely engaged parents and that is great for your daughter.
To give you an idea of an ‘average’ child in my reception class

• can recite numbers past 20, can recognise all numbers to 10, can continue repeating patterns, can solve simple problems
• is starting to recognise more tricky words by sight, recognises all phase 3 sounds and most phase 4, can recall key points about a story, write captions (few words) and are starting to attempt writing a sentence but not there with it yet

DD is about the same age, according to her teacher they have to give her extra work at school and because she’s a bit ahead in numbers (can add a bit etc) and reading as well.

She doesn’t completely get movies and with books her comprehension can be hit and miss and any explanation of events tends to be stream of consciousness rather than linear, often garbled.

I would try buying some read it yourself books they have comprehension questions at the end and start from there. comprehension at this age is a skill so just start developing it slowly. If we are at a cafe we would get the sugar packets out and say “white, brown, white, brown whats next”. So perhaps patterns in a different context. Make sure you are looking at her when you are talking, it’s important she sees your mouth when you speak.

It may not be about intelligence at all it could be how she processes things. If the school offer extra support grab it. Also there is quite a lot of variance at this age, they are still quite little.

I would speak to the SENCO at school and see about getting her some additional support. She may have mild learning difficulties, or dyslexia/dyspraxia. She may just be slightly developmentally delayed and catch up. It’s hard to say.

I have a towering IQ, reading chapter books as a toddler etc. My DS has profound learning disabilities and multiple SEND. The one thing I will tell you is that comparison is the thief of joy. Don’t compare her to her peers, or to you and your DH and just celebrate every achievement she makes on her own terms, and you’ll feel better about things.

I don't want to dismiss your concerns and I think they are very much worth investigating but just wanted to say that my daughter couldn't read at this age, couldn't understand a long story or follow a film. Now she's at high school and is doing very well.

Dyspraxia maybe? Or a hearing check op?

I think given how committed you are to reading - yes that does worrying that she can’t read anything just yet. I’d apologise to the school for your initial defensive behaviour and ask for a referral.

look up Developmental Language Disorder (DLD) and see if it fits. If she has DLD it doesn’t mean that she’s not clever.

I was going to mention DLD. Sounds very like my son at that age. He now has a diagnosis of DLD, ASD, dyslexia and hypermobility.

The DLD qas his first diagnosis by educational psychology at 4. The rest came much later as his needs increased

OMG, my Dad would be just like brother number 1! He worked as a Nuclear Physicist. 😝

I agree with those saying get her hearing and sight tested.

I had scarlet fever as a toddler and around age 8 developed hearing loss as a result. My academic progress tailed off for a while at the same time as I was masking at school but everything righted itself once the grommets went in.

It could be a combination of dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. Speak with the school.

Wishing you well. It's so worrying but you sound like a wonderful caring mum and you'll find the support you need.

@Booboobunnywoo , this is the right call. There are SO many things this could be, and no one on Mumsnet can possibly know for sure unless they are a trained professional who has met and professionally observed your daughter.

BUT what I wanted to address is to make you feel a bit better about the last part. I think it’s great that you’ve apologized to the teacher for being defensive; please know that my understanding is teachers deal with this (defensiveness) a lot when they’re the first ones to deliver the news that a child may not be meeting milestones, may be delayed, or may need to be observed by the SENco. I think it’s really brave of you to come on here, ask for advice, and then go back to the teacher, apologize, and ask for assistance. We are all human. Almost everyone will be overly defensive at some time or another when it comes to their child; what matters is what you do next, and it sounds like you’re trying to do the right thing for a child you love very much.

Just don’t beat yourself up. You had no previous experience with children, as you say, and you have no friends with children. Only once we know better can we do better, and you’re trying. I wish you very good luck, and hope they can determine what your daughter needs to do her very best.

Check her hearing and her sight.

I didn't get glasses until I was 10 or 11. I needed them from birth but no one new because I never had a trip to the optician.

I swear there are different types of intelligence. My dad is a few years older than his brothers so when my parents were fairly newly wed one or other would stay with them for a change.

If they asked either one to put the kettle on brother number 1 would but the kettle on and that was it. Brother number 2 would put the kettle on, get out the tea pot, the cups and the milk and bring in a pot of tea.

Brother number 1 was the one that went to uni (very unusual for a working class teenager in the 1960s).

As I was reading your post the first thing that jumped out at me was hearing. I have 3 children with hearing loss, one of whom (the one with the worst hearing) had speech delay. She struggled to blend words and understand how to put words together. We'd spend ages saying s-u-n over and over, slowly and carefully, we'd think she'd be able to blend it on the final attempt and would say cow or some such. She also struggled to hear the TV and would stand in front of it when watching. No one could understand her when she started nursery age 3 and by age 4 it wasn't much better. I struggled to understand her until she was nearly 5, although my husband did better. She is now 7 and has hearing aids and is thriving. What you describe sounds more complex though. Ask the GP for a hearing test and speech and language assessment. Also ask school what support they can access. The health visitor should still be able to help at age 5 I think.

Conversely, my 5yo who also has hearing problems has a wide vocabulary that I've not experienced before with any child (and I used to be a Childminder) and can read fluently. Children really do develop at their own speed. You're doing the right things- just keep pushing for support.

Has she ever had speech and language support before?

at 5 they should be able to read (at least basic sentences) and write - writing their name is even earlier, circa 3-4. I certainly think there is something going on here but as a PP said it’s not necessarily a reflection on her intelligence and she sounds a very happy and social little girl, and you sound like a wonderful mother.

Sorry you are worried, she sounds like a lovely happy child with great parents so please try to focus on that if you can. I work in a related area and would suggest asking for a speech and language referral as it does sound like she has some communication difficulties both receptive and expresssive and also an educational psychologist to identify her areas of strengths and difficulties in her cognitive profile. An assessment for dyspraxia would also be helpful but not sure who could refer you for that and to who, OT maybe? Good luck and hopefully she will get the bit of extra support she needs soon.
oh and I don’t think not following films and chapter books is unusual at this age - by 7 year old old just starting too although it probably is his weakest area.

No they are correct - please don't jump to conclusions about intelligence.

Consider getting her assessed for DLD. It's a communication disorder that is far more common than autism for example but a lot less well known. 2 to 3 kids in every class have it.

It's referred to sometimes as aural dyslexia. It's a learning difficulty but not disability. It doesn't affect intelligence but does affect ability to process information and that includes problem solving.

PP have already suggested getting her hearing tested and I would second that from lived experience. The thing that’s jumping out at me is the rhyming where it seems she’s mostly picking up on the vowel as the rhyming sound, and not the rest, and the hit and miss nature of sounding out words. That does suggest to me some issue with auditory processing or hearing loss - she’s hearing the vowel, it’s dominating, and not the beginning and end of the word.

Even if auditory issues in some way are not the full picture, they might still be part of it, and in any case would also lead to language delay if not picked up.

It’s also possible this isn’t the case at all, but having her hearing investigated won’t do any harm, and then if auditory issues are not a factor, then at least you have eliminated one possible cause.

The incomprehension of films even though eyes are glued to the screen reminds me of myself as a deaf child - I would have been able to provide a broad or simple narrative arc, but not specific details of who said what or the deeper nuances of the plot etc, in the absence of captions when I was young, but I would have been very visually interested. Similarly, the fixation on small details suggests a stronger visual awareness (very typical of many deaf people, myself included).

Can she see you as you sound out or are you looking at the book? Does your hair screen your face from her as you read, sound out, etc? Does seeing you and looking at your lips make a difference with success, particularly with initial letters in words such as wall and mall - again it seems to me she may be picking up the vowels more than the rest here?

Best wishes to you and DD. I hope you get some answers.

First step that you can do yourselves is to get her hearing and sight tested.
Then ask the school to refer her for a Speech and Language assessment. There are several signs in your description that would suggest she has language difficulties.