To bring your attention to the Carers Benefit fraud scandal?

Unfortunately she has a cluster B personality disorder. Specialist external carers are few and far between; we’ve had normal carers, it did not go well.

And as she is a) self funding and b) has capacity (madness in itself) she has absolutely refused for anyone but me to do her care. Adult Social Services are involved, and have done their best to persuade her that due to my own disability (a congenital defect and 50 years of deterioration so on crutches myself) it’s not right or fair, but she refuses to listen.

I’ve lost count of the number of therapists, doctors, nurses, OTs, PTs etc. who’ve tried to help her over the years, she’s complied with none of it (although of course she’s as sweet as honey saying she’ll change or exercise or help herself).

Other family have their own mental health issues (in big part due to her behaviour when we were children) and there’s no way I want them to suffer any more due to her behaviour.

There’s no magic bullet or medication for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

It sucks, but we’ve tried every permutation before we’ve come to this end.

The system is fucked.
There is no help if they won’t consent to help.
Thank god for a good DH, adult kids, great medication for myself, and a hell of a good private health plan & therapy through his job, or I’d be fucked too.
It’s like shouting into the Abyss.

Many apologies, got onto a bit of a rant lol!

I think the real scandal is how little carers allowance is. the lowest weekly benefit of any kind on exchange for at least 35h work - many do so much more. No break, no holiday, no sick leave, no extra pension payments (other than the NI credits) and if you work even for a few hours, you are banned from claiming as if you don't care. I care for 2 DC with disabilities, one very complex needs. I earn little in a shitty part tine job and I am therefore disallowed from claiming carers. We do a bloody hard job. it should be paid at 35h x NMW. nothing less. It's absolutely disgusting how we are treated. But nothing will change because most people aren't affected and couldn't give a hoot and sadly, we are not able to go on strike like the rest of the nation.

There's a big difference between this and the post office scandal.

In the post office scandal the individuals had done nothing at all.

In these cases in the press about carers allowance it seems in all cases the rules of claiming were broken. People may not have understood and been confused by the rules but the rules were broken. DWP could have been more efficient in identifying overpayment but for every single benefit claim individuals are reminded to check whether they are still entitled and to report and changes to DWP.

The man in the article wrongfully said he didn't have a job, when he did. He wasn't eligible to claim and therefore committed fraud.

Yes

I went back to uni part time. I did exactly the same amount of caring as I studied when my son was asleep or at respite. Lost the CA I had been claiming (was not entitled to student loan).

it’s an awful benefit tbh. So easy to make an error.

I didn’t claim CA when entitled because my work could be sporadic (albeit below the threshold) & I couldn’t face having to deal with all the changes in circumstances. It’s a pitiful amount for someone who requires 24 hour care as well

So actually £395 worse off after receiving a £50 bonus?

His Father would not have received Carers Allowance, if the Son had not continued to receive DLA/PIP.

@CentrifugalBumblePuppy Why wouldn’t you just keep the successful business rather than live on £70 a week? Just curious.

No, you he'll lose his entire carer's allowance for that month

This man ticked a box to state he was not working at all. Then every year he just ignored the letter asking if his circumstances had changed at all. Benefit fraud can't be accepted any more than tax evasion. It's right he was made to repay the money he wasn't entitled to in the first place. I'm surprised they are targeting people on CA though as it's such a small amount. Lots of people claiming to be living alone and claiming benefits as a single person but actually have live in partners. I've noted that when these come to court it's often £70-80k or more and the judge just lets them off because they have a DC. If DWP's can access bank accounts that might mean fraud can be stopped quicker.

He is fretting about a potential work bonus that he might get of £50 which will wipe out his CA. So he'll be £39 worse off after receiving the bonus.

Carers save millions in social care costs. The amount paid to them is an insult as is the threshold for earnings.
That is as much as I need to know and I don’t want to see anybody penalised into repaying money because they have earned a tiny amount more than the dwp state is allowed.
As for trotting out figures about benefit fraud, the majority of that is organised crime gangs not ordinary individuals.

He was, but for whatever reason the son was giving it to drug dealers.

I have a friend who gets caught in this ridiculous trap regularly. His wife is a teacher and the main earner. He does one night shift a week during term time (as can only cope with one night of not sleeping a week) and could work a few more during the holidays but each time he does, he loses his CA and has to re-start the claim.

He is fretting about a potential work bonus that he might get of £50 which will wipe out his CA.

Carer's allowance fraudulent claims rate is 3%, 0.1% below JSA.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2022-to-2023-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2023

No, these people claimed carers allowance when they were eligible.

Their earnings then went above the limit usually by a tiny amount, and when they themselves were being run ragged by caring for someone else for at least 35 hours a week - a full time job on top of any paid work they were doing. In most cases this is not deliberate fraud.

To get carer,s allowance though he would have to be caring for someone who was in receipt of disability payments ,so surely his son would still have been receiving PIP in his own right?

One person rang the government helpline and was told she didn't need to declare her part time earnings.

The DWP has access to PAYE - it's how they got on to these people in the first place. But instead of doing this in a timely fashion, they allowed the situation to carry on for years, so that people who have very little money to begin with are left with debts that cause them to lose their house if they have one, or face prison time if not.

We're not talking about people on a decent income setting out to defraud the country, we're talking about people on very little income (else they wouldn't have been awarded carer's allowance in the first place) going over the limit by a few pounds. People who are being run ragged by caring - you only have to dip into the Elderly parents thread to realise the toll that caring can take. In one case, the person was forced to sell their house, leaving him with £6000. He fell into depression, and is now being supported by DWP to the tune of £1000 a month - far more than the carer's allowance. No way can you spin this as being good for the taxpayer.

Couldn't agree more.

I am a carer for my severely disabled child. I also work 12 hours per week for the NHS. I have read the overpayment articles and find it hugely concerning. Not only do I have to manage on an absolute pittance, and provide care for my child of at least 50 hours a week, but now I get to worry about whether I have worked an hour or two over my contracted hours in the past.
Instead of the DWP writing to me about this, it's like they're springing a trap for Carers, the lowest paid and in my opinion lowest valued in society.
I am under a great deal of pressure from my employers to work additional hours, but as I now earn the princely sum of £146 per week I have to inform them time and again that if I work that extra hour or two I lose my ENTIRE CA payment. So I would actually be losing money.
It is an outdated and unfit for purpose payment system.

It was his social worker who suggest he apply for carer's allowance instead of his son receiving disability allowances, because money paid directly to his son was going directly to his drugs dealers.

DWP have since accepted he made a genuine mistake and have said that in writing to him.

DWP are now paying him several times the amount of the carers allowance in housing and sickness benefit. Their decisions have cost the taxpayer money.

Carers' allowance has a "cliff edge", in that being only £1 over the earnings limit causes you to lose the entire allowance. A pay increase of £1 a week would leave you worse off by the entire amount of the carers' allowance - this is an allowance which is paid only if you are working at least 35 hours a week caring for someone.

Absolutely this. A friend is in this position and struggling to work as well as looking after 2 elderly parents. He lost his job and his home due to caring responsibilities. Now lives with parents who are being leaned on by SS to go into care (they don't want to) and sell their home to pay fees. SS could not care less about him. He keeps working (self employed/part time) because carer's allowance is a pittance and the house is not in his name. He will probably collapse with a heart attack in the end.

They can stop and start Uc based on wages for the month. Why does it take them years for carers allowance?

I don’t agree with the £151 a week earnings cap for carers. They’re not eligible to claim anything else so a few extra hours work makes a difference to them. Carers allowance is a pittance compared to the cost of paid care

@IClaudine

Debate!!?

😂 it's only MUMSNET!

It is. It is a farcically low amount, they stop you earning much and they put in a cliff edge. I’m not sure they could make it any less unfriendly.

It can be claimed by those on very low incomes (full time carers by necessity) but also those on high household incomes like myself. I frankly could work, but life is better all round if I devote myself solely to my caring duties plus having a life of my own. Those in the middle who have to somehow work miss out massively. The system should allow everyone to care properly and be recompensed sufficiently. Work, where it makes sense, should be possible.

In the past I have claimed means-tested benefits. I am thankful that now we get DLA and carers we, as a family, are far, far from being eligible for means-tested benefits, but I really can’t begin to appreciate the result of combining the stress involved in a situation where you are eligible for means-tested benefits with the stress involved in being a carer for someone eligible for mid-rate DLA/PIP. Hats off to anyone in that situation.

Yes this is key
Overpayment flagged on DWP system
Claimant not notified as a matter of course
Overpayment accrues

Very poor.