That the Grand National should end

And 2nd:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/other-sport/horse-racing/second-horse-pikar-dies-ladies-28988751

Yes, vegan since 2007.

And… first fatality. 💔

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/national/uk-today/24249805.grand-national-2024-giovinco-dies-fall-ladies-day/

100% get rid of this cruel race.
I do not support it in any way.

• MuggedByReality , *you are obviously the clueless one . If you think being stabled in a 12 foot square box for 23 hours a day, having metal shoes fitted before the feet are even fully formed and being raced whilst their bones are still developing, is luxury then you are sadly mistaken. I have a friend who owns 3 failed racehorses. They all have habits such as weaving, cribbing and windsucking from being stabled for so long. Even when out in the field they still do it as the psychological damage is done.

I take your point and don't eat meat myself. However there is very definitely a difference between eating meat and taking a fun day out to see an animal being ridden hard, whipped and potentially shot.

Is there a reason why we don't eat horse meat but will tolerate horse racing? I mean, other than money?

I wonder how many vegans go the races and how many racing fans are vegan? I bet there's not much crossover.

“Anyway, I don't get the cruelty argument. They're horses, you can't make a horse run if it doesn't want to.”

Tell me more about what “breaking” a horse in is. Horses are controlled from birth to do our bidding.

I really hate this minimising type of extrapolation. It’s like you can’t say anything about the environment unless you’ve never used anything plastic in your life.

People speak up against what they see is inhumane. End of.

@FestiveAuntFanny

Yeah, of course horses want to race.

They really love being forced to race until their lungs are bleeding, their hearts explode. Same as they love broken legs, backs, necks. Have you ever seen the footage of the horse running round in panic with his leg snapped in two, just being held together by tissue and muscle?

What about the horses that "don't make the grade" so they are killed by the trainers because they won't make money.

The trainer filmed laughing while sitting on a dead race horse.

The horses that are no longer able to race for various reasons. They just get shot, they could be retired peacefully to pasture, or given to anyone who is looking for a companion horse.

The entire industry is incredibly cruel and barbaric and needs to be stopped, as I said in my first post, sixty horses killed so far in 2024 alone.

I have to agree with this - horse racing pales in comparison to killing animals to eat. Weird for someone to be against horse racing while tucking down a roast every Sunday.

I'm assuming all those people who want it banned are vegetarians/vegans? Or is it okay to eat animals but not use them in sport?

The same sort of person who goes for a nice day out and tucks into a piece of meat for lunch without a care in the world that a few cows/pigs/chickens will die the process?

All horse racing should be stopped,

There's upwards of sixty horses been killed in 2024 alone, even before you get to The Grand National. One horse killed in any race is one too many, but sixty?!!

That's a stupid comment. Human being have a choice of sport they take pet in animals don't. As for sweat shops that is a completely different subject

Yes, that is the crux of the matter. I imagine the racing industry generates a lot of money in taxes and there are a lot of very rich and powerful people involved in it so it is unlikely to be banned any time soon.
However things do change. I never thought fox hunting would be banned, but it was. And I bet if there had been a Mumsnet in the mid 19th century, debates over the banning of things like cock fighting and badger baiting would have covered many of those same points being raised here, yet most of us would find those things repugnant now. Same with performing animals. Nobody batted an eyelid about animal acts in circuses when I was a child, now they are pretty much consigned to history. Zoos have changed a lot too. And my Spanish relatives tell me that the support for bull fighting is waning significantly with several cities having banned it - that's something they never expected to see. So I think that eventually most or all use of animals for entertainment will stop, but not in my lifetime that's for sure.
Incidentally for the "what about human sports" crew, there are campaigns to ban some human sports, such as boxing, or to outlaw particularly dangerous manoevres in others. There's certainly a lot more focus on player safety in many sports, for example the recent flurry of concussion protocols across a lot of sports.
Plus none of us is perfect - does it negate the good that people do in one area if they don't pursue all the world's problems with the same vigour? I don't think so.

@LlynTegid I agree. Every year I hope that no more horses will have to die in the race or on any other race course.

The Grand National will end, it does every year. It's only on for ten minutes or so. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Sure in the old days there were only a few other channels but these days there is a much bigger choice or you can just stream something.

Anyway, I don't get the cruelty argument. They're horses, you can't make a horse run if it doesn't want to. Horses often refuse to start a race because they're not in the mood. With a big race like the Grand National, they're some of the best horses around - they have to have had a few decent runs in the past to qualify for it, so horses that hate racing won't even get into the field.

What irritates me is the so-called "safety" changes that have been made for this year. They actually make the race more dangerous. Personally I think the risk is acceptable but it is illogical to make a race more dangerous than it was in previous years in the name of safety. Reducing runners, reducing the run in, a standing start, all this means is that the first few fences will be more even. Less field spread means a higher chance of interference, collisions, fallers and fatalities.

Don't get me wrong, nobody wants to see dead horses with a tarpaulin thrown over them as the leaders progress through the second lap (indeed we probably won't because the cameramen and director are more aware of the bad optics), but the safety changes for this year make the race more risky in my view.

I'm not specifically a fan of horse racing, but I do think it's hypocritical to call for an end to a sport involving animals if you eat meat. A horse that rages in the grand national will be well looked after. Will have had the best of care and food and training and is very likely to go onto live a long and healthy life in more luxury than your average person. Bit meat bred commercially is often raised in sub standard environments and has a very very short life.

I eat meat. I also used to own a point. I believe in animal welfare, not animal rights.

I dint do any of those things.

I assume the counter argue,ent to this would be that these humans decide to put themselves in at potential risk, whereas the horses don't get a choice.

The comparison would only work if the sports person had no say in whether they take part or not.

64 deaths GN since 2020.
79 deaths Cheltenham since 2020. As a pp pointed out there's the horses killed through injuries, for all races, during training/transport etc all year round.

That with bells on. People often buy a house with a bit of land and get a pont for the kids. They think, build a shed and we are good to go.
The prosecutions against extreme neglect/death cases, of all aminals are a joke.

As many horses die at Cheltenham and across horse racing in general

Proportionately this isn’t even close to true.

As many horses die at Cheltenham and across horse racing in general. Why the GN always provokes these threads is a puzzle. I'm in Liverpool, I have mixed fellow because we need this event to generate income and jobs. I think that the courses should be more humane, but I don't agree with there being no more horse racing. We shouldn't still be doing animal experiments. During Covid I had to blank out the thoughts on what we would be doing to monkeys in the name of finding a vaccine. This is a subject in everyone's face, but the food industry and our want of cheap chocolate, coffee etc creates much more slaughter and cruelty.

The nail has been pretty much hit on the head above - it won’t stop until such time that public opinion shifts so dramatically that it hits someone in the pocket - e.g. sponsors think it’s a back look to be associated with, spectators stop turning up, people stop betting on it.