AIBU to think this became a political issue where children are just pawns?

And still you don’t want to discuss and focus on provision and care for young suicidal people struggling with this. The hours of debate should be on gender ideology. Sounds really helpful.🤔

Children don't need puberty blockers. They just need to be told that as a boy or as a girl they can wear, look and do whatever they want. Their sex can not be changed and it doesn't need to be. If more people let their boys wear dresses and like nail varnish and playing with dolls and whatever else there would be a lot less of this.

And if people could stop leading vulnerable sen kids down this road that would be great. They're generally more likely to not blindly follow gender stereotypes but it doesn't mean they're trans.

Basicly, bring back tomboys and let boys like pink.

Men pretending to be women as some kind of fetish is a whole other issue.

Stormy is illustrating exactly why society has got to this level of negligence. Unless we can have a debate about how far reaching gender ideology has become, we can’t move forward on any level.

Where on earth have you been, OP?

So nothing more than that to offer. So helpful.

Nope. What we want is to stop offering witch doctor style medicine which has been proven to be ineffective for some people and actively harmful for quite a few. First do no harm. This attempt at shaming women is absolutely vile.

😂😂😂

Absolute nonsense and a very poor attempt to twist what I said. The struggling young people are best served when we don't lie, when we don't pretend that people change sex, when we don't facilitate males being facilitated to assault some of those vulnerable young people and when we stop pretending that gender stereotypes are real. Doing the opposite is abusing those young people just in order to bolster the fragile self esteem of powerful adult males. It's a shi thing to do to children.

And so it goes on….

Yes, we do care very much about those young people.

Yes, far more mental health support is needed.

As is better messaging to counteract the pernicious effect of social media.

But stopping lying to young people that they can change sex is the first and most basic step.

Nobody campaigns for it. Families with children and young people who need MH provision are too busy surviving and keeping their children alive. The rest of you just want to spend hours debating what is a woman and women’s spaces which completely drowns out anything else.

So yes children and vulnerable young people are pawns and it’s despicable.

I didn't mention JK Rowling or women's spaces on this thread. I said that I don't think that saying puberty blockers shouldn't be given to children is extremist and the fact that so many consider if extremist is an indication of the success of activists and then there was an accusation that I want children to commit suicide, for some reason, again, an idea pushed by activists that is going to take some time to undo. All of these children need mental health and emotional support, and not to be fobbed off my medicine that can't possibly do what it claims to do.

Here we go again.🙄Never moves on from that though does it as let’s be honest that is all the vast majority of posters on these threads really care about ,not the young people at the heart of it.

Campaign for better mental health support, and in the meantime don't give kids experimental and dangerous medications.

Ok so how about we discuss that instead of focusing on women’s spaces and JK Rowling hero worshipping which is all that happens on these threads on a loop.

There is no mental health support.

So what are you suggesting as an alternative for suicidal children and young people in broken CAMHS and adult services?

I don't think that saying that you either give children puberty blockers or leave them to die is correct. One of the problems that we do know is that puberty blockers aren't making children less suicidal and that the comorbidities that many of these children have are also linked with suicidal ideation, which puberty blockers couldn't ever solve. I really dislike this characterisation that you want children to die if you don't think that sterilising them solves their issues. Children need proper mental health support, not prescriptions that will create a whole raft of other problems.

The two things are inextricably linked by the assertion that human beings can change sex.

They cannot.

Any discussion centred on the rights and welfare of children and women has to start from that reality - humans cannot change sex

I don’t think PBs should be just handed out willy nilly either but where is the real debate and exploration re what treatment and support she be given as an alternative when there is nothing? Where is the anger about that?

Talk to any SEND parent. The anger is colossal. Children’s needs, most often those with many comorbidities including questioning gender, are largely ignored.

The difference with specifically addressing gender identity and nothing else that might be going on, is that affirmation is pushed relentlessly and without question. Celebrated by many in wider society and the media as progressive.

And here we go again. No thought of struggling young people at all,just women’s spaces. Come on let’s be honest there is very little actual concern about the struggling young people at the heart of these discussions it’s just about women’s spaces.

So what are you suggesting as an alternative for suicidal children and young people in broken CAMHS and adult services?

That they should just be left to die?

I don’t think PBs should be just handed out willy nilly either but where is the real debate and exploration re what treatment and support she be given as an alternative when there is nothing? Where is the anger about that?

If TW would stop invading women's spaces and some of the trans community and some allies would stop pushing medical interventions, we could get on with actually making a trans positive society. One in which trans people don't pretend they've changed sex and people don't try and say that some clothing can only be worn by women. Entrenching stereotypes and living about biology is not trans positiven and is most definitely anti woman.

I kind of resent the implication that the belief that children shouldn't have puberty blockers is an extreme position and I think it really shows how successful activists in this area have been. There doesn't seem to be any reliable evidence that this is in any way a properly evidenced treatment but there is evidence that it does damage. Personally, I think they should be banned for children claiming transgender identities - they are a physical solution to a mental problem and the children presenting in this way have so many confounding comorbidities that I just don't see how it will ever be possible to reliably prescribe this to those who some are saying are the right children.

Absolutely this

The big big issue is the dire state of mental health treatment in both CAMHS and adult services across the board, the lack of autism support or an adequate diagnosis system and the cliff edge between CAMHs and adult services that young people are just left to fall off.

But still it is barely getting a mention. Would love to know how any CASS recommendations are going to be put into place given the dire state of mental health services.Of course the Tories would rather focus on crying “ we know what a woman is” than face the horrific way they have let all children and young people struggling with mental health down.

I believe I made it abundantly clear that there are a lot of unanswered questions and that medical treatment is not the one and only option for every individual. I guess your comment is case in point. Maintaining a rational position which allows for both options to be valid is a difficult thing because it is attacked by proponents of both opposing camps.
Using both "positive attitude" and "intrusion" in the same sentence though is quite an oxymoron.

There are extremes and moderates on both sides of the argument. Sadly those who care about children and women had their voices drowned out

Im interested to hear more about these extreme ‘sides’ we hear so much about. The side that generated wholesale fear of losing jobs, reputation and peers, who labeled parents bigots for asking questions and continued to push gender ideology blindly over medical safety and evidence. Yes.

What was the other extreme side then?