Honour-based crime up 62%

Why do you specify Muslim men and women do you believe that it is confined to the following of Islam and no other beliefs? Or that it's the basis of Islam?

I am also Indian by origin. The problem I think is that Mumbai and Delhi are not representative of most areas of India. Gang rape and murder, and subsequent lack of prosecution is a huge problem in India. Another issue is that when we look at British Asian communities, they revert to the culture they lived in when they left, not the culture that exists now. So they are in some cases far more ' traditional' than they would have been if they had lived in India/Pakistan.

Of course there are abusers in all communities, and most abuse does come at the hands of White men, but where there are characteristics of certain groups that make it more difficult for women with that particular society to report a crime or escape from their situation, it does need to he labelled. Unfortunately in the case of honour crime, there is the additional layer of the entire family being complicit, including the mother/mother in law, in some cases protection from the wider community. Not to mention the ' flight risk' etc of someone disappearing to another country to escape capture, the ' disappearing of British girls to often Pakistan against their will, etc etc. These are specific characteristics of honour crimes that have to be looked at over and above the general male violence against women, so it has to be sub categorised. Saying ' But White men do it too' is not helpful to women who are under enormous pressure not to bring shame upon the family and who risk losing their entire family and community if they escape.

That’s ridiculous. It would absolutely be talked about the same way if communities of British immigrants to Asian countries assembled long-standing paedophile rings of Asian girls.

Exactly. It’s disgusting.

You are completely right that white men can be abusers too.

but there is a cultural context here that can’t be ignored. Of course, misogyny still exists in the UK but it’s fair to say that our society and laws have made it clear that women are equal, women are able to have sex lives etc. ( even if the reality is we get paid less, are judged for having multiple partners in a way men aren’t)

while British society is still misogynistic, it’s pushed underground. And it’s fair to say women’s rights are far better here than in north west Pakistan.

these men are raised to think they own women and don’t even have to feel embarrassed about thinking that way. That must be very disinhibiting.

white British men exhibit their misogyny in a different way.

I also think there was a fear of tackling it because of squeamishness of offending people’s culture.

Pretty sure the term originally came into use because it was viewed as an attenuating circumstance - similar to the "crime of passion" or "family tragedy" label to other types of femicides. You do make a good point but I wonder to what extent it's possible to completely turn the exculpatory nature of the term on its head just like that. That said, I don't have a good alternative to offer.

Saw the story on the lady in Bradford - another example

It's male violence towards women - no honour about it

We need to stop calling it honour based crime
There is no honour in it whatsoever
misogynistic scum based crime??

Ridiculous to excuse such violence as 'cultural'. It might shock these men to learn that they live in Britain, where attacking women is generally frowned upon.

I don't have the figures to hand but given how much violence against women and children is committed by white British men it would be very hypocritical to single out other ethnicities, unless there was clear evidence they commit significantly more offences as to justify it.

And by evidence I mean actual statistical evidence and not just examples of what the media reports. As referenced above Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford are often used to infere that Asian / Muslim men are more likely to be abusers. Yet rarely do we see people using Glasgow, Wolverhampton / Walsall, or the international British paedophile ring to suggest the same of white British people.

There definitely needs to be a name for these kinds of crime.

I don't think anyone really believes that an honour crime is actually honourable, but OK if some people think it does give that impression, then another expression could be found.

I definitely don't agree that there should be no way to express it. Looking at the reasons why a crime was committed is not the same as justifying that crime.

Coercive control exists as a crime. It is this, fundamentally. I don't think it needs another name which alludes to it being a problem specific to a given subsection of society.

People - usually men - who attack women for daring to act autonomously come from all walks of life - all religions, all races and classes. I worry that giving it a special name, even if that name doesn't carry the repulsive positive connotation of 'honour', others it.

It's useful to note if there's a rise in a given crime within a certain sector of society, but to rebrand that crime as something that only exists within that community is a lie.

I'd call it what it is. If it happens to be a rise in crime against women specifically among a given religious sector or minority community then that is worth mentioning. But there is no honour in it and no violence against women should ever be elevated through that word.

If there is a rise of domestic violence by Muslim men on Muslim women, we should say so.

Yet more male violence.

I can see why people might want to give it a separate category, but it's just more male violence against women and girls.

I am Indian by origin. Firstly so called honour based violence is abhorrent and it is appalling that the figures have risen so much in the UK. Many Asian women's groups are focused on this issue. Breaking down barriers which isolate some Asian women, providing refuge and advice. I would ask though that you do not allow legitimate concern for appalling male violence to lapse into easy Asian stereotypes. Across the Indian sub continent there are a vast array of different cultures. Very often our societies are built on strong female cultures and a visit to Mumbai or Delhi might well surprise you in terms of female empowerment.

if the name is sanitised then we will know even less.

The name should stay. It’s a very specific type of crime. It’s important to know what we’re dealing with in order to work with it.

No OP they won’t have gone up that much, it’s a click baity headline. There is actually no way of knowing since there will be changes in number of women willing to report, appropriate crime tagging by police and actual raw num er of incidents.
Its actually possible the number has gone down.

I think even using the word honour is wrong! However I do not necessarily think there has been an increase in crimes, instead I suspect women (and it's usually women but there are male cases too) are now more likely to report and the cps more likely to act in more marginal cases.

Whatever the truth behind the statistics, even one case is one too many! Ironically in India love marriages are becoming the norm in cities I read, not sure about other countries in that area.

The only problem with that is that it can be confused with domestic abuse and types child abuse which then hide the motivation making it less easy to identify the risks maybe family cultural abuse?

I wonder if the stats are available for the % of women murdered (no ‘honour’ here) per background (race/religion/nationality etc) for UK crimes.

Are some culture/religion/race of men more violent and murderous - or is the label ‘honour based’ just so repugnant it jumps out?

This is a very valid point, but there's a difficulty in that the more entrenched members often regard any intervention as an attack, and so the accusations of racism start again and the authorities cower in terror

One obvious answer is to employ culturally appropriate staff to drive initiatives, but I'm reminded of a local Covid scheme where such people were used in an attempt to increase vaccine takeup
It failed due to community pressure on the workers to withdraw, along with complaints that they were being racially targeted

And perhaps another reason for the reported increase could be that - as in Rotherham, etc - the perpetrators have learned that little will be done, and so they feel encouraged to carry on regardless?

The language used is indicative of the squeamishness in addressing the behaviour of other cultures and the crimes they may be involved in, such as what happened in Rotherham and Newcastle. If we don't have the language to address it then these offensive and ridiculous terms will continue to be used.