Honour-based crime up 62%

The biggest dangers are to those who are non english speaking. The best thing for women is to be engaged in the workplace where they are visible to other people, I don’t know how you do that.

Absolutely. It is not ' inclusive' to enable women to be forced to live in absolute poverty ( or to be exploited in garment sweatshops for well below minimum wage) with no way of escape, where they cannot access basic services without pulling their children out of school to translate for them, disrupting their education too. But it is the men who will shout the loudest about respecting their ' culture' stand outside schools, live in poverty rather than allow their wives to be educated and able to get a job. Of course, some of the same problems also apply in other very traditional White communities ( travellers for example, in relation to domestic abuse and girls education). resolving those issues also results in the same complaints about ' respecting culture'

I've just seen the wedding picture of the latest victim, Kulsuma Akter. Her husband has been charged with the murder of this young mother. She had been in contact with West Yorks Police previously.

@Papyrophile
Shitty men from particular cultur taking advantage fully to the max of nasty covid and lockdowns in UK

Arseholes

@Papyrophile

This is aspects of Locdowns detrimental effect, and aftermath of the mistakes our British Gov created

The Dominoes effect pattern..

I know we know what it means, but our use of it implies acceptance of the term. Which translates in the heads of those likely to carry out such a killing think we accept that "honour killing" is ok

Not sure about that one, Brefugee; it would take an unusual mindset to ever think this is okay, and with those who sadly have it there's probably little to be done beyond prosecuting

You simply can't reason with the sort of person who's gone down this hellhole, and while the many support services do an excellent job among the victims, the perpetrators are likely to consider this just one more attack/offence and deem it racist interference

Just wanted to thank whoever recommended The Push further up the thread. It was an incredibly moving and eye opening watch.

But that is an accurate description

For "honour" it's anything but accurate

Call it cultural murder. It's murder and there is nothing honourable about it

tbh the cultural norm in some other country doesn't bother me as much. It is not the cultural norm in the UK or Europe to treat women as property, and thus these phrases and actions have no place here.

I'm sure someone more up with legalese than me could make the case that these are hate crimes (based on sex, and race) and therefore the punishment should be harsher.

As an asian woman it really bothers me that institutions often turn a blind eye incase of accusations of racism. I knew a guy years back who was trying to expand english language lessons for pakistani women (often overseas brides) and he appealed to the local Mosque for help with this and they flat our refused to be helpful. He was Pakistani himself and was trying his damndest to get Pakistani women engaged in the wider community (language lessons, exercise classes, help with finding jobs etc) and it was rebuffed repeatedly. They basically said their husbands will look after them. The biggest dangers are to those who are non english speaking. The best thing for women is to be engaged in the workplace where they are visible to other people, I don’t know how you do that.

I understand people are sometimes uncertain about others cultural norms but we are talking about people who are or wish to be British citizens, they should have the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else. We cannot have a two tier system of lower rights and lower responsibilities. Rotherham was definitely a situation where race played a massive part in allowing men to wholesale rape, abuse and traffic children.

I know this is not popular but I was a bit relived when the conservatives basically made it harder for people to just pick up a wife from a village and bring her to the UK with barely any questions asked. I understand the rules negatively impacted a lot of sincere and decent people but it was precisely those women who were completely isolated and away from their own families and language that were at the highest risk of abuse.

But it’s not just domestic violence.

it’s a very specific form of domestic violence.

Using the terms that the murders have in their mind when they are punished for it reinforces what they are punished for.

it's like using MAP instead of paedophile. Call it what it is. Domestic violence. Domestic murder whatever.

Using the term that those murderers use tells them in their heads (not in normal people's heads) that what they did is an "honour killing" and thus in their heads we are agreeing that is what it is.

Mediaeval practices have no place in Western (or any) society.

Part of male violence is the fear it creates in women which leads to acts of self protection

Honour based crime is not always and only perpetrated by men. Women take part in it as well.

It might be male led, but it would be wrong to describe it as exclusively male.

We use sexual abuse as term. Doesn't mean it's accepted.

How does it show acceptance if it's the term used on the indictment?

Why would anyone think it's acceptable if they read that such and such has been convicted for it?

Except that "everyone" doesn't.
Language matters.

You reject the term and you pass the message that there is no excuse and you won't be any part of saying there is or saying anything that could be interpreted that way.

Whereas if you use the term that is used to justify these attacks and murders, it is seen as acceptance by people who believe in this fucked up honour shit and it also adds to the them and us bollocks in some people's minds with 'honour' killings being a Them. Whereas there is no them and us, there is only male violence.

I know we know what it means, but our use of it implies acceptance of the term. Which translates in the heads of those likely to carry out such a killing think we accept that "honour killing" is ok.

I think we need to call it what it is: and carry on categorising killing of women with a term that we can accept. (Macho Culture Killings won't wash, but that's the kind of thing i'd aim for)

I don’t think the term ‘honour killing’ needs changed at all tbh. We all know it has nothing to do with how we interpret honour in the Uk. Unfortunately the authorities are frightened to challenge these crimes for fear of being seen as racist. While in the Uk you either abide by our laws or you leave. Those are your two options.
Bringing domestic violence into the equation has nothing to do with the topic of ‘honour killings’. It’s a classic example of ‘ but what aboutery’.
When the term ‘honour killing is mentioned everyone knows exactly what it means.

The risk for a very small percentage of women is very real.
There are agencies trying to target/help these women.

It is really difficult to know.
Women who used to be at risk of honour crimes have been greatly enabled. Immigrants on the whole diverge towards the norm quite quickly. Integration is real.
The odd weirdos are out there, they may always be.

You have to be privy to a lot of data to be even a wee bit sure about what is going on.

Statistics bob about.

Women killed by men has bobbed at a bit under 200 for quite a few decades.
In recent years that has decrease to nearer the 110 I mentioned.

Honour killing %s today are similar to domestic violence killings last century.
Yes there is work to be done. Yes the work done is having an effect.