Honour-based crime up 62%

Can't find it! Could you add the link please?

Thank you so much for clarifying this. The idea that killing the person who has sinned and caused the loss of the family honour thus cleansing the family and restoring that honour is pretty rife in Muslim communities. It applies to girls who have sex before marriage, unfaithful wives, any LGBTQ etc person. Can you believe that in Pakistan, a woman can be divorced for talking to a male stranger on the phone. I've seen it, I lived there for 4 years. In Pakistan, in particular, the law of the land actually states that a man may 'beat his wife lightly' as required by the the Council of Islamic Ideology. This is in line with the idea that a female is educated by her father then her brother then her husband !

Exactly.....let's call it what it is...Murder.
because women won't follow the pathetic rules.

This link explains what the charity appeal was.

If they want to pay for his funeral, they should have done it truthfully snd seen how much they got, then covered it from their own funds.

This!

Not a surprise when you consider how the ethnic make up of the uk has changed. However lets call it violence against women as there is no honour in it.

Honour violence is a very particular type of violence against woman and girls that is more prevalent in some cultures than other (it’s South Asian cultures and ME rather than SE Asian cultures)

you are not going to shift attitudes by challenging and arguing about the term as honour isn’t intrenched in British culture. We all know it’s about control and using violence to keep control what is needed is more support for these women and girls to not also get away from violent families but also to bring up their children safe environments

I think more woman and girls who are in this situation are possibly reaching out for help, reporting the violence, and trying to get away are reporting their families and often this will mean breaking away from all their family

Honour based violence needs to be categorised separately from domestic violence and to remain as HBV. That's not to take anything away from any form of domestic abuse. We all know there is no 'honour' in killing anyone in a domestic setting; the term refers to cultural expectations in multiple religions.

My understanding of HBV is that the victim often has more than one perpetrator within the family environment. This, combined with more often than not the person being vulnerable due to not having the support of the family or community networks, unable to speak the language, lack of access to funds and a distrust of police (usually originating from a their home country) makes the reporting if this type of crime a massive deal. Once reported their lives will flip on their axis and they will be reliant on a support network that involves other agencies but probably not their family.

karmanirvana.org.uk/ are consistently providing support for victims of HBV and also education for other agencies such as the police. They provided support Fawziyah Javed's family in The Push. They use the term honour.

@DramaLlamaBangBang

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/abdul-ezedi-clapham-attack-muslim-burial-christianity-conversion-asylum-row-b1147916.html

Wasn't there some kind of coomunity fundraising appeal to pay for the funeral of the acid attacker? I know they lied about who it was for to get more money, but who would even think to set up a fundraiser for him? And yes, the women- mother's, mother in laws especially are often active or complicit in the abuse.

I agree I don’t want it just part of other stats

This is linked to culture

There’s a lot of comments about it just being male violence but it isn’t. It is called honour crime is for a reason. Most male offenders who commit violence against females do so under the radar as best they can and, especially with domestic abuse, they present a different side of them to others. Very few would openly say to their family they are violent to their wives/children. Honour based crime is different, there are often multiple offenders from the same family committing the crime and they do it to save face with their community for the perceived dishonour that the family member has brought on their family. This is so very different to the typical VAWG crimes and with the perpetrator being praised for it they feel they have done the right thing.

We absolutely need to talk about this and not lump it in with similar crimes. It doesn’t mean one type is more or less that the other, just different.

I know but people keep saying it's wrong I think it accurately describes the warped mentality of the perpetrators. It allows us to get on and do our work no confusion.

In Islamist countries, men are routinely murdered (under government sanction) for the “crime” of loving other men. It’s a fraction of the women murdered, but still enragingly “normal”.

Very off topic but how do you suppose people from within a culture but who don’t agree with “honour killings” would be able to identify women at risk? (Answer - they can’t any more than you or I can)

And such a label already exists.

Note that CPS even labels these as “so called honour crimes”.

Which goes back to the question....we have to label it with a unique label that allows people working with potential victims to be alert to risk factors therefore what label do we use?
I don't think the bigots who do these crimes give a shit what anyone outside their social group think, because in their eyes we are evil, corrupt sinners anyway.

i said something like... because i don't know what we should call it. I know we should NOT be feeding their misogynistic delusions by using their term.

And I'm afraid if 99% of them are offended? then they can help by identifying which women are at risk and alerting the authorities. I could be offended by things people say about middle-aged, middle-class women. I know I'm not a twat so i ignore it.

I don't think the term should be sanitised. Usually honour is in inverted commas, or prefaced by 'so-called'. I think that makes its meaning pretty clear.

It's a very culturally specific crime, and I think amalgamation into other forms of violence against women elides the point and does a disservice to victims.

That is entirely my point. Everyone else knows there is no honour in these murders. The people that call it honour killing, hearing everyone else using those words is the arsehole that thinks "oh yes, see, they call it that, too"

Ah yes, I see what you mean Brefugee - you're right of course, and in the comment that we're not talking about rational people here

No. Cultural Murder is highly offensive to the 99.99% of individuals from that culture who do NOT support so called honour crimes

that is entirely my point. Everyone else knows there is no honour in these murders. The people that call it honour killing, hearing everyone else using those words is the arsehole that thinks "oh yes, see, they call it that, too"

We are not talking about rational people here, we are talking about men who would throw acid in someone's face then kill her for doing something they (but nobody else in the country) thinks dishonours them - the acid thrower. It is batshit and it is why we should use Cultural Murder (or similar or better)