Honour-based crime up 62%

Papyrophile · 2024-04-10T20:02:22+00:00

According to the Family Law Centre, honour-based crime in the UK went up 62% from 2020-2022. For explanation, honour-based crime and abuse mostly affects women from SE Asian or Middle Eastern backgrounds where the cultural traditions are very strongly patriarchal, arranged marriages are routine and women are regarded as less important/valuable than men. As a feminist, this is extraordinarily distasteful to me but I am not affected at all by it. How do other people see the situation?

Words · 29/01/2025 19:17

There's a reason why 'honour crime' is placed in inverted commas, or called ' so--called honour crime'

Nantescalling · 29/01/2025 18:08

iwishihadaname · 29/01/2025 12:21

My daughters friend was killed in a so called honour killing not his family but the girl’s family he was 18 or 19

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https://theconversation.com/the-forgotten-male-victims-of-honour-based-violence-96041

iwishihadaname · 29/01/2025 12:21

RedHelenB · 11/04/2024 07:18

I wonder how many men get killed for dishonouring their family?

My daughters friend was killed in a so called honour killing not his family but the girl’s family he was 18 or 19

JustAskingThisQ · 29/01/2025 12:14

One time in school, my white British friend's dad found out that she had been sexually active with some boys. He came to the school and assaulted her, took her home and assaulted her again and then emotionally neglected her until she left home. Was that honour violence?

It was based on the idea that she had shamed him and their family by being promiscuous.

Nantescalling · 29/01/2025 11:25

EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 20:44

The term needs to reflect the cultural background

I prefer it as it is as it makes it clear why these men are committing these crimes

I agree. I don't think any of these murderers would have hurt a fly except that their whole family egged them on. This goes way beyond perceived adultery. It can be dowry related, gender related, faith related.

EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 20:44

The term needs to reflect the cultural background

I prefer it as it is as it makes it clear why these men are committing these crimes

Naddd · 28/01/2025 16:10

I agree the term honour based needs to be changed.
There is no honour in these crimes.
I wonder whether it has actually increased or that women and girls now thankfully are able to access help.

Nantescalling · 28/01/2025 16:02

Notagoodenoughreason5 · 21/01/2025 19:53

Permafrosty

A true Muslim would not be depraved as it goes against theor religion.

Me wanting to know why men are so disgusting was not meant as a deflection, rather a musing. The men that committed these atrocities against those poor victims are not Muslim. They are using it to hide behind that faith. I don't give an ish if they pray to Allah or read the Qu'ran(sp). They are not legitimate followers of the Muslim faith!

These verses not instructive?

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Nantescalling · 28/01/2025 15:56

Almahart · 22/01/2025 11:08

www.channel4.com/programmes/the-push-murder-on-the-cliff. Here you go

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That link won't go through but this does

It's absolutely horrendous particularly earinghis Dad saying they were very very happy!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51IZ_2vWFcY

Almahart · 22/01/2025 11:08

Nantescalling · 21/01/2025 08:06

Can't find it! Could you add the link please?

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www.channel4.com/programmes/the-push-murder-on-the-cliff. Here you go

Original poster

Papyrophile · 22/01/2025 10:19

@User37482 That has been my understanding of "honour" crime too, but it is very helpful to have it acknowledged by a poster who has seen the practice at work within their community.

OP posts:

jannier · 21/01/2025 23:15

User37482 · 21/01/2025 21:26

I agree that violence against women broadly is high and should be dealt with. I’m asian and the dynamic is different. Girls have been killed because they are suspected of having a boyfriend by their own fathers/brothers. That is not, I believe, a thing amongst white population.

The context is different and there is an underlying element of coercive control by weaponising male honour. It’s a specific crime with a specific “reason” and generally by specific groups. Doing this whole “oh all men are violent” thing hides the specific kind of violence perpetrated against specific groups for specific reasons. We should be curious about that as a society.

I personally see it as a betrayal of ethnic minority women living in Britain who should expect to have the same rights as white women when people try to fudge what happens to them within the “all men are violent”. Same as with the children groomed by gangs, trying to fudge it never benefits victims, it only benefits perpetrators.

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Well put.

jannier · 21/01/2025 23:14

coxesorangepippin · 21/01/2025 20:01

Don't make it sound more glamorous than what it is

It's femicide

No honour involved, clearly

And still a year later...it is not saying it's honourable it's labelling the type of killing and the sick justification used by the perpetrators the reason being you identify the twisted logic you try to educate the twisted support system you attempt to identify those at risk.

stomachamelon · 21/01/2025 22:19

@User37482 that is such an insightful comment.
We seem to have such a problem in this country with tackling our failings wherever they materialise from.

Thelnebriati · 21/01/2025 22:17

You can't tackle a specific type of crime if you can't identify it or name it; and we also need accurate, detailed statistics. 'Honour' crimes are not like other types of MVAW.

User37482 · 21/01/2025 21:26

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 11/04/2024 12:12

I don't have the figures to hand but given how much violence against women and children is committed by white British men it would be very hypocritical to single out other ethnicities, unless there was clear evidence they commit significantly more offences as to justify it.

And by evidence I mean actual statistical evidence and not just examples of what the media reports. As referenced above Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford are often used to infere that Asian / Muslim men are more likely to be abusers. Yet rarely do we see people using Glasgow, Wolverhampton / Walsall, or the international British paedophile ring to suggest the same of white British people.

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I agree that violence against women broadly is high and should be dealt with. I’m asian and the dynamic is different. Girls have been killed because they are suspected of having a boyfriend by their own fathers/brothers. That is not, I believe, a thing amongst white population.

The context is different and there is an underlying element of coercive control by weaponising male honour. It’s a specific crime with a specific “reason” and generally by specific groups. Doing this whole “oh all men are violent” thing hides the specific kind of violence perpetrated against specific groups for specific reasons. We should be curious about that as a society.

I personally see it as a betrayal of ethnic minority women living in Britain who should expect to have the same rights as white women when people try to fudge what happens to them within the “all men are violent”. Same as with the children groomed by gangs, trying to fudge it never benefits victims, it only benefits perpetrators.

PassingStranger · 21/01/2025 20:37

Honour crime?
There's nothing honorable about it?

JHound · 21/01/2025 20:20

I don’t get the relevance to you being a feminist?

Honour crimes overwhelmingly impact women and girls but not exclusively. I also don’t have to be from a community to care about what impacts the people that are part of it.

coxesorangepippin · 21/01/2025 20:01

Don't make it sound more glamorous than what it is

It's femicide

No honour involved, clearly

Notagoodenoughreason5 · 21/01/2025 19:54

Excuse the typos

Notagoodenoughreason5 · 21/01/2025 19:53

Permafrosty

A true Muslim would not be depraved as it goes against theor religion.

Me wanting to know why men are so disgusting was not meant as a deflection, rather a musing. The men that committed these atrocities against those poor victims are not Muslim. They are using it to hide behind that faith. I don't give an ish if they pray to Allah or read the Qu'ran(sp). They are not legitimate followers of the Muslim faith!

jannier · 21/01/2025 12:26

I do think this thread shows the very need to educate everyone in safeguarding and the reasons why we don't use a one name catch all phrase for what happens....murder or any abuse....are people arguing abuse is abuse so no need to break it down?

jannier · 21/01/2025 12:20

Nantescalling · 21/01/2025 07:59

Thank you so much for clarifying this. The idea that killing the person who has sinned and caused the loss of the family honour thus cleansing the family and restoring that honour is pretty rife in Muslim communities. It applies to girls who have sex before marriage, unfaithful wives, any LGBTQ etc person. Can you believe that in Pakistan, a woman can be divorced for talking to a male stranger on the phone. I've seen it, I lived there for 4 years. In Pakistan, in particular, the law of the land actually states that a man may 'beat his wife lightly' as required by the the Council of Islamic Ideology. This is in line with the idea that a female is educated by her father then her brother then her husband !

Edited

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There's lots of warped interpretations of various religions I'm afraid and not in the true spirit of any. It's just an excuse to dominate and abuse hidden under a cloth....badly.

Nantescalling · 21/01/2025 08:14

DramaLlamaBangBang · 11/04/2024 15:49

Of course there are abusers in all communities, and most abuse does come at the hands of White men, but where there are characteristics of certain groups that make it more difficult for women with that particular society to report a crime or escape from their situation, it does need to he labelled. Unfortunately in the case of honour crime, there is the additional layer of the entire family being complicit, including the mother/mother in law, in some cases protection from the wider community. Not to mention the ' flight risk' etc of someone disappearing to another country to escape capture, the ' disappearing of British girls to often Pakistan against their will, etc etc. These are specific characteristics of honour crimes that have to be looked at over and above the general male violence against women, so it has to be sub categorised. Saying ' But White men do it too' is not helpful to women who are under enormous pressure not to bring shame upon the family and who risk losing their entire family and community if they escape.

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When you say 'escape', are you talking about Asian women who are victimised for an 'hour' issue?

Rachmorr57 · 21/01/2025 08:11

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