A son is a son until he finds a wife, a daughter is a daughter for life

Yes some people are just generally difficult. We are no contact with mil BUT so is her own daughter. So it’s clearly a problem with MIL and not linked into son or daughter dynamics. I definitely find when I meet people with really awful MILs, those MILs also have issues with their daughters. I also know women no contact with their own mums.

I also disagree that the maternal grandmother will ALWAYS trump the paternal one. I think there are other factors that come into it. My paternal grandma was a lot younger than my maternal one, lived a lot closer to us and helped out a lot with childcare etc. I loved my maternal grandparents but definitely have more closeness and memories with my paternal nan.

Dh is much, much closer with his family than I am to mine. His dad has always done a huge amount of care for his granny and is very close with her. They've all been raised with the value that family is important and they look out for one another and generally have fun and enjoy each others company. The men in the family champion the women and all the sons are called out if they don't do enough to visit or call etc. My mum is difficult and creates strain in all my family relationships and is the main reason why I don't live near them although I do try to maintain some relationship with her for the sake of my dad and sister. A lot is based on how you're raised I think.

I'd also say that we see so many threads on here about MILs overstepping and making things difficult for their DIL - if someone is doing that it's naturally going to create a rift with their son to some extent. I know some people have said that's unfair because it's different to the relationship a woman and her mother might have but it's also sometimes the case where mils are being unfair or tactless or awkward. I feel very lucky that mine is so supportive and I feel she's always given me space to figure out my parenting without giving unsolicited advice or judgement and that's actually made it so much easier for me to go to her for advice. I think often dils can feel a lot of pressure to live up to mil expectations and maybe that's part of why mils can be more easily seen as critical? Definitely not true in my case and I hope ds enjoys time with me when he's older and I can continue to be a support and a safe place in his life.

That doesn’t say that over eighty percent of men leave their wives or partners in the few months after the women are diagnosed with a serious illness.

I hate this saying too! I have boys and I hope we do remain close. That said I think a lot of it comes down to the family and communication rather than the sex of your children. I had a really difficult relationship with my mum as a teen / young adult and now we get on but definitely don’t have that “best friend / talk everyday “ type of relationship. My husband speaks to his mum way more than I do to mine. I also made a huge effort with MIL as I saw ILs as gaining more family, and did things like invite her to my wedding dress shopping as she has 2 sons and I wanted her to be included. Sadly when SIL came along MIL decided she much preferred her and now we don’t see each other much but it’s nothing to do with her having sons - just being an annoying person!

I think it's true for a lot of families. Unfortunately we live in a patriarchal society and therefore childcare and organisation is often left to the wife. And people tend to gravitate towards and be more comfortable with their own families. When I struggled with my first child I naturally went to my own mum, I organise parties and meet ups for my own families birthdays etc but wouldn't feel it was my place to do that for my inlaws, if I'm being a bit cheeky and asking for baby sitting so I can have a night off I'm more comfortable asking my own family etc. The end result is that naturally we end up spending more time with my family and my husband tags along to all of that and so we're just closer to my side. I get on well with my MIL because she's very laid back and now she's on her own we do bring her to my family events more so she isn't alone but prior to that it was more of an our family and their family situation and my husband was part of our family more than theirs if that makes sense.

We also, like many families, moved closer to my family when starting a family because I felt that I needed the support through pregnancy and the early days and wanted my Mum for that. My husband didn't mind either way where we lived.

That makes a lot of sense.

The wife will default to asking her husband any questions she would have previously asked her father or asking for help unless the husband isn’t available or dad is extra knowledgeable in that area.

The wife will still ask her mum as always and the relationship stays unchanged.

So the husband rightly asks his wife all the stuff he may of gone to his mother for previously and his relationship with his dad is unchanged.

My dad doesn’t feel snubbed over being replaced as such it’s just how it goes. He just hopes I picked a good one and he looks after me as such.

Mils noses often feel pushed out when the babies appear as most parenting still defaults to the mother and as such she defaults to her mother for advice and help and a comforting person the dad his fine off to work doesn’t need support from his mother so she feels sidelined and blames it on the dil.

I always say on those threads mils can’t expect to have a once a month relationship with their dils and then suddenly expect a popping around for tea every other day when she’s on maternity leave as that relationship didn’t exist. The relationship still goes via the son but his at work so baby visits will be evening/weekend when he wants basically.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19645027/

When we moved next door to our neighbours who have adult son and a daughter, both children lived at home with their respective partners which we thought unusual. The daughter we rarely see now she has a home of her own, but the son is here half of the week - I honestly wonder why they bothered to move out. (I am not a curtain twitcher, and I couldn’t care less how much time they spend together, but I know when the son is home because he brings their dog, which they leave it to bark in the parents’ garden for hours and hours on end, two evenings a week and all Sunday afternoon, whilst they all sit inside and talk about Christ knows what, which drives us up the wall. Plus, collectively, they are LOUD.)

I’d like to see a source for that statistic, please. Did someone randomly survey seriously ill women every few weeks to see if their husbands had left yet?!

That’s not at all what that saying means at all. It means that (supposedly) your daughter will always be a close part of your family, but once your son gets married, he’ll prioritize his wife and their family/her family over yours.

How is a biological role women maintain for their entire adult lives “childlike”?

Over 80pc of men leave their wives or partners in the few months after the women are diagnosed with a serious illness. But keep believing men and women are exactly the same in the loyalty they feel (as a generalisation) to family relationships. Men can compartmentalise in a way women find very difficult. Hence why they also find it easier to leave their children and not look back.

It honestly doesn’t do anyone any good to pretend the emperor has no clothes on.

I think it really depends on his relationship with his mother. My MIL has her good qualities, but she’s not emotionally close to her kids and I don’t think she ever has been. (I started dating my husband when he was seventeen and his sister was four.) I’m the one who he’s been open and emotionally vulnerable with for over half his life, not her, so of course he’s not as close to her.

Assuming close and healthy family relationships…

If a man marries a woman, she’s (rightly) supposed to surpass his mother as the most important woman in his life. If a woman marries a man, her husband is (rightly) supposed to surpass her father as the most important man in her life. Her mother’s position, though, is unchanged. I think this saying primarily comes from women. I’ve never heard a man say it.

I would just lump it in with the outdated, misogynistic traditions of getting married, having your father ‘give you away’, and taking the man’s name, and ignore it.

YABU to get offended by an old saying, yes.

If you are getting offended by it, it's probably touched a nerve!

I have heard that saying a few times and found it interesting but not very accurate.... then I forgot about it and got on with my life.

Hardly a projection, there's a lot of truth in that post. Mn has seen plenty posts over the years where the DIL only wants her family after the birth/visiting the new house/ on Xmas day etc etc.

Wow, someone's projecting. Got a daughter-in-law you don't get on with by any chance @Lupuswarriors ? The bitterness and anger is dripping from your post.

I’d say it is a generalised truth, but it’s more about when they get married and have kids the DIL will tend to go more to her family. Assuming they get on well that is! If you treat the DIL like your own daughter, be kind and respectful then it doesn’t need to be like that.

My MIL was very nasty and jealous, made it clear she didn’t like me, then started being rude to our children so we went NC, haven’t seen her for 7 years now, phew. It all depends on how you treat others. If you start off biased against their partners then, yes, you can expect that to happen as they will not want to visit and have much contact.

I think there is some truth to it. It doesn’t relate to how close you are.

it’s relative to the fact women are naturally more likely to organise and schedule and whip the family into shape. When a woman has kids they’ll likely engage their mum for advice on the more personal matters and so relationships develop and strengthen in a different way.

Men more often go with the flow or take a back seat in this regard.

No doubt everyone will say ‘not my husband it’s 50/50’ yet the MiL threads and the school admin threads would suggest this to be true.

Hmmm I can only speak from my own experience but I’ve found my MiL has struggled to adjust to DH being an adult so sometimes comes across as trying to baby him (for example, still referring to herself as mummy, still trying to parent / get the final say, insisting she gets priority over his birthday as she gave birth to him) whereas my parents have embraced that I’m an adult now and our relationship is different (but not in a bad way!).

So she does feel like she’s ‘lost’ her son but really he’s just grown up and she hasn’t moved with the times. Relationships evolve and I think men & women can stay close with their parents but everyone has to accept that the way you are with your parents when you’re 5 is different to when you’re 35!

I’ve also always been mindful of the advice to observe how a man treats his mum if you want to know how he’ll treat you in 30 years time. If he’s the type to adore someone because he’s loyal and appreciates you as a person and not superficial/ driven by his sexual attraction, he’s probably pretty devoted to his old mum. It’s the besotted with the young wife type who get newer models … If he’s prepared to push aside his own mum, he’ll push aside his wife once her boobs drop and her face starts to hang.

Dude! You don't have to explain to me that a wife and a mum are different things - I KNOW. Jesus, you must think I'm a total simpleton. The fact is that my partner meeting me has meant he has ended up moving further away from her than she'd like, she is not a fan of this and she let's me know it. Going back to OP, there is no guarantee that kids will stick around geographically speaking, regardless of gender, but it is unfair when MILs blame this on their kids partners and are passive aggressive - this just creates awkwardness for everyone. No one has to accept that. That is the point I was making. I've said my piece and now I'm unwatching that s thread as the mumsnet mob is piling on 🙄

This is literally the first time I’ve heard this & I'm in my 40s. But then again in our family the boys/men are just as close to their families post marriage/settling down than pre. It’s never been a thing where the girls stick around but the boys don’t, nor are the boys/girls treated differently

You shouldn't need to prove to yourself that your husband loves you more than his mum, or imagine his mum is jealous of you, because the two of you should occupy entirely different roles in his life. To frame yourself as her competitor is a really unhealthy attitude, as is weaponising his feelings towards you against her. If your husband is genuinely besotted with you, surely you're so secure and happy in your relationship you dont need to gloat over his mum about who he loves more?

Also I've never completed for his male attention or the attention of any other male, I've always had too many other things going on for that. This doesn't stop my MILs coming after me, as she's clearly decided it's a competition in her mind. Your response is a little presumptuous, I don't know where your idea of me as some sort of a pick-me girl has come from. Feel like you completely missed the jokiness in my original post. My MIL is pain in the buttocks and when I tell my friends they're surprised I'm not harsh in response to her harshness tbh. Most of the time I encourage him to see her without me as she seems to prefer that - does that sound like someone who's competing for attention or am I just working with the situation in front of me as pragmatically as possible? Of course I roll my eyes from time to time, but I don't feel bad about that because I'm being more understanding than most