rude friend of dd's - do I say anything?

I think I would tell my dd that you noticed that Alice was a bit different when she came and ask her if she’s often like that these days. Being a bit catty and seeming bored is usually teenage talk for I’m going through something hurtful but I don’t know how to talk about so I’ll just act out with those I care about instead.

I would absolutely not confront Alice in your home, she needs to feel safe, but I would also make sure my dd understands that it’s not all in her head or anything she’s done. I would also bring it up with my friend. I wouldn’t say she was rude, just that she seemed a bit down and not herself.

DS1 had a friend at about 10 who always sulked and claimed he was being left outbu the other three lads. A close eye on them one session showed that was not the case - he just sulked if he didn’t get his way all the time, usually sitting on the stairs. I asked if he wasn’t happy did he want me to ring his mum and ask her to pick him up now? He shot back in the room as fast as anything. I didn’t say anything to the mum as she was already worried about his behaviour. I just let him know without stating it clearly that I wouldn’t tolerate that behaviour.

If I told off my 13 year old's friend like this they would be utterly mortified. She needs to be the one to impose those boundaries.

If your daughter chooses not to be friends with the girl and your friend brings it up then you can explain to her that the girls are 13 and are responsible for their own relationships.

Perfect!

I think your mature daughter should be handling this on her own with a bit of support from you. You can tell her that you heard her friend being rude and unkind and ask her how she felt about it and help her to come up with ways she can handle this in the future.

I think at 13 your dd can fight her own battles especially with someone she knows so well

I don't see any way you can help with this tbh. If you've seen a change, it's likely your friend has too. And even if she hasn't she's aware of the wider problem and is presumably working on it with Alice. What I'd be doing is chatting to your DD about what she needs to tolerate. Given they are so intertwined through the family link, she may be putting up with more unpleasantness than she should. I'd be giving her a few stock responses to make to Alice 'if you're bored why not go home?' Etc to help her stand up for herself in an assertive but low key way.

"I'm sorry you are bored, Alice. We love having you here, but don't feel you have to stay if you would rather go home..."

You could also add that bored people are boring people.

It puts the ball in her court so she either has to deny she is bored and change her behaviour, or go home. It also lets her know - without being confrontational - you have noticed her behaviour and won't put up with it.

While it's up to my own dd to navigate her own friendship with Alice, I'll also have a careful chat with her about it.

Good plan, so she knows that even though you are friends with Alice's mum, you have no problem with her giving Alice the elbow if she is asking for it.

If it was my child I would want to know what you saw. Your observation could well cement what the mother has been suspecting is going on and she can talk to Alice. Alice will end up isolated completely if this isn’t sorted, so personally I would speak up.

If there's a lot of bitchy behaviour aimed at Alice has her Mum spoken to the school about moving her to a different class to escape the bullying?

Your DD sounds like a sensible girl. But as Alices mother has already mentioned it, I would say something. All you have to say is that you noticed a change in her when she last came round and take it from there. It sounds like it needs nipping in the bud before it gets out of hand. And if you're good friends with Alices mother, then it should be an easy ish conversation to bring up. Good luck 🌺

Ohhh, Year 8 is SO horrible when you're a girl.

It's when all the primary school relationships start to drift, new friendship groups (not always healthy ones) take shape, hormones, bitchiness.... Anyone without a strong/resilient personality can end up under the influence of the mean girls, trying to fit in with the popular crowd, sometimes discarding old trusted friends in the process. It is indeed a journey.

It sounds like your DD has her head screwed on, at least. Personally, I would stay out of it as much as possible, and not say anything to Alice, but do have a chat with DD. The best solution is for her to manage the situation herself....maybe a little timeout from their friendship is required. In my experience, they all come out the other side. The important thing is that DD isn't being hurt, and has good support from her other friends.

DD2 had an awful time in Y8, with her primary school bestie teaming up with the mean girls, and a bit of minor bullying followed. I was very proud of her firmly turning her back on the unhealthy friendship group, and finding some nicer mates (who she is friends with to this day).

I would say something but gloss over the rudeness and frame it as "not her usual cheerful self"

Except it isn't a 'one off', is it? It is clearly happening because Alice is hanging out with Regina George et al. It isn't ok for her to use the OP's DD as her emotional punchbag. OP, I would definitely speak to the mother, as she has asked anyway.

Yes, say that.

But if the child is around again, tick her off when she actually makes a catty remark. Or just send her home.

I wouldn't say anything based on that alone. She'll end up getting a bollocking from her mum for being rude and then won't want to come round any more so it seems like you're opening up a lot of big consequences over something quite trivial.

Obviously, if it was regular bullying of your daughter that would be a different matter.

Also I agree with PP that it may be worth talking to DD so she knows she can stand up for herself.

Be very, very careful it could totally blow up in your face. Maybe ask Alice if she’s ok when she’s over next.