Page 3 | Mentally Ill Therapist

WonderWanda · 2024-04-09T13:57:59+00:00

Should someone with significant mental health disorders of their own be practising as a therapist? I have looked into this briefly and there are suggestions that mental health conditions are at higher rates amongst psychologists and psychiatrists. It could be argued that a therapist who has experienced issues for themselves would be more understanding and empathetic towards their client's struggles. In cases of of experienced anxiety or depression I can see how this might be beneficial. Currently there are no restrictions on any mental health conditions that would prevent a person from practising as a clinical psychologist. In cases of schizophrenia, BPD, psychosis etc, all of which that can leave the affected person detached from reality or with a warped view of events, is it ethical that they be allowed to treat others? I don't see how.

NavyKoala · 09/04/2024 21:29

I have bipolar disorder and have experienced psychosis. I would infinitely prefer to receive support from someone who understood where I was coming from, and had some lived experience, than someone like the OP who was silently judging me and writing me off.

I've had good experiences with peer support workers btw.

TheHouse · 09/04/2024 21:25

@Minecraftminecraft

It’s only a positive if the therapist has extensive therapy themselves and also ongoing, professional good quality supervision. If they’re able to maintain superb boundaries whilst having huge amounts of insight into what pulled them into that particular career path.

Its really not a positive when said therapist has had no therapy themselves (certainly possible for some therapists these days who aren’t as qualified but who are registered with the appropriate bodies). It’s also a problem when they’re projecting their own unsolved issues onto their often, very vulnerable clients.

I find it’s the minority in camp one.

Nextdoor55 · 09/04/2024 21:23

Sounds like you think that people with mental health issues are delusional & irrational & there's nothing in between.
People who are diagnosed with mental health issues aren't all going to be sitting rocking in the corner nor will they be unable to maintain professional perspective.
Look at it this way, everyone has mental health issues, just like the majority have physical health problems at one point or another.
The best therapists are the ones who know pain & who have some life experience. And so if you are treating a mental health problem it could be really useful if you understand that problem first hand, it might be that you are a bit further along in your recovery or understanding of that problem but it could potentially make you a better person to understand personal struggles.

Minecraftminecraft · 09/04/2024 21:20

From just reading around the subject and speaking to people, I have been aware for a long while that what draws a lot of people into being therapists, away from their other careers is their own experience of similar issues. I see that as a positive and I wouldn’t want a young therapist with no life experience.

Original poster

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 21:19

IDontHateRainbows · 09/04/2024 21:10

This has led to pilots failing to disclose any mh issues for fear of losing their license.

Thd pilot in America who entered a psychotic state and tried to take the controls and down the plane, believing himself to be in a dream ( and wanting to 'prove it' by waking himself up) being a recent example.

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There was a pilot who intentionally flew his plane into the Alps killing everyone on board some years ago too.

I think doing everything possible to determine people in these roles are mentally stable is incredibly important.

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StarDolphins · 09/04/2024 21:18

One of my ex boyfriends used to be very possessive, strange & depressive. Used to drive 40 mins to my work most days where I would find a love letter with a multiple choice questionnaire on the back full of ‘Will xxxx love me forever, does xxxx love me more than anyone’ with tick boxes! It all got way too much! He also took lots of drugs & said he’d be dead by 50.

He’s a high up Consultant Psychiatrist now & I’ve seen him on TV a few times. I can’t imagine he’s without issues.

tothelefttotheleft · 09/04/2024 21:16

@Smokeysgirl

You have to report them. He's not doing his job and someone could come to significant harm because of it.

IDontHateRainbows · 09/04/2024 21:10

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 15:14

I agree, but being obese doesn't necessarily mean his surgical skills are any less and the results of his aptitude in his work are tangible eg. the patient survives a triple bypass.

Whilst I think we shouldn't discriminate against disablity, should it be taken into account if there could be an inability to perform the role?

I believe pilots have to undertake psychological evaluation for this reason.

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This has led to pilots failing to disclose any mh issues for fear of losing their license.

Thd pilot in America who entered a psychotic state and tried to take the controls and down the plane, believing himself to be in a dream ( and wanting to 'prove it' by waking himself up) being a recent example.

TheHouse · 09/04/2024 21:05

@Emotionalsupportsnail

I think the point was many professionals working within mental health already have extensive mental health problems themselves and that also includes psychiatrists. God complex comes to mind.(not all but definitely some).

Many clinical psychologists went into the role to understand themselves, along with counsellors, therapists and mental health nurses. It can sometimes be useful with the user experience but I still find the lack of insight astonishing in registered professionals. The blind spots are … well, mental.

Technically though it’s still unlikely you would be treated by an individual with schizophrenia. The stats for employment for those with severe, psychotic illnesses are very low.

myheadisaterribleplace · 09/04/2024 20:55

fightingthedogforadonut · 09/04/2024 18:25

I did an entry-level counselling course years ago - largely because the listening skills gained were useful in my day job at the time. Oh my god, there were people on that course that were so unstable they should have never been allowed within 10 miles of a vulnerable client! Talk about 'physician heal thyself'. I stopped the training after level 1 because I had no real intention of ever training as a professional counsellor. But some proper headcases went on to counselling degree courses. I was appalled by how low the bar for acceptance into these programmes was....

Wow!!! Headcases....if I were you, i would be appalled by your own thoughts and feelings about other people!! I'm so glad you never made it any further than you did. That's disgusting

Picklesjar20 · 09/04/2024 20:41

I think it would require a period of stability. Like if your an alcohol worker with lived experience you would be expected to obviously be sober and for a long period of time prior, or depending on the illness if it is managed.

But in all honesty i would trust a professional/support worker who had been through it and come out the otherside, or had done the therapy/experience themselves and knew what worked for them, then someone who had no idea about the recovery process other then what they learned from a class or observed.

I mean at least then i know whatever treatment you're getting can work.

Emotionalsupportsnail · 09/04/2024 20:26

Smokeysgirl · 09/04/2024 16:44

My dh suffers from psychosis and GAD. He's recently been allocated a peer support worker (not a therapist, I know, but someone who is paid to support him in his illness). The man visited once and seemed lovely, then he didn't turn up the next two times he was booked to visit, no phone call, nothing. Then he rang out of the blue, said he'd been ill but was now better and wanted to come and see my husband. He also said he had great news for me, as his carer. He arrived and chatted to dh, all about his own life and illness, it was almost as if it was a counselling session for him not dh, then he told me he'd email me links to organisations that could help me and dh, said he'd discussed us at length with his manager and felt he could really help us. This was three weeks ago and we haven't heard from him since, no links that he was so enthusiastic about have been emailed and he didn't turn up for his appointment again last week. It makes dh (and me) really anxious to sit waiting for someone who doesn't turn up. I don't want to report him to his employers as, if he's ill again, I don't want to get him into trouble and maybe make him worse. I really don't think someone, who obviously still needs support themselves, should be employed to support others with mental health issues. If he was a volunteer I would be more understanding, but he's employed full time to do this job and why isn't his manager asking how he's progressing with dh if he knows all about us? If he's off sick why can't someone phone to explain he won't be coming as arranged? I feel sorry someone who lives alone and is in desperate need of that visit and the person just doesn't turn up.

I think it’s fine to phone and find out why the appointment didn’t go ahead. Someone should have been in touch with you if he’s off. They need to rectify that.

Emotionalsupportsnail · 09/04/2024 20:21

We all have mental health. Sometimes it’s better and sometimes it’s worse, depending on a complex range of variables. Clinical Psychologists are very carefully selected, very well trained, registered and supervised clinicians. It doesn’t stop the odd one getting through who really should’ve, but mostly very good governance.

Tennineeightsevensix · 09/04/2024 20:21

I have personal experience of a colleague who experienced psychotic episodes and delusions and who was off their meds and believed they were perfectly well and a top performer but didn’t do any work and caused all sorts of damage to team members. It was very difficult to take any sort of action to improve the situation due to their refusal to own their condition and their behaviour. They just had no insight and everyone else was to blame. And a workplace can’t insist someone takes their meds.
Extremely stringent monitoring would be needed for someone like my colleague to work with others experiencing mental ill health.

WinterDeWinter · 09/04/2024 20:20

mynameiscalypso · 09/04/2024 15:06

I think so long as they're taking medication (if appropriate) and have regular supervisions, it is fine. I've had HCPs disclose diagnoses of things like bipolar to me (no idea why!) and it has made no difference to the treatment they've given.

Sorry, this is a serious subject but this made me laugh guiltily, imagining you going in to have your boil lanced and the nurse practitioner solemnly informing you about her bipolar diagnosis before she comes at you.

Emotionalsupportsnail · 09/04/2024 20:19

Justcallmebebes · 09/04/2024 14:59

I have a friend married to a consultant psychiatrist and he is the most abusive, batshit crazy person I have ever met

Please don’t confuse psychiatrists with Clinical Psychologists, therapists or counsellors. Some psychiatrists train in psychotherapy or talking therapies but they are not therapists.

Original poster

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 20:18

@daffodilandtulip Oh God, that's shocking!

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Original poster

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 20:15

pikkumyy77 · 09/04/2024 16:45

This “Just asking Questions” format seems innocent but also a bit hostile and judgmental to people with BPD/EUPD as it presupposes that they are more self centered or careless than other people and therefore cannot be trusted to work ethically with others.

I don’t think this is necessarily the case but, in any event, OP seems a bit overconfident and overinvolved. Is that OP’s anxiety talking? Or another part?

If she is a close friend why don’t you tell her your concerns?

OP’s friend is not in a different position to anyone else who wants to do important work and who may, at times, find it challenging.

I can’t speak for the UK but here in the US we receive training, have professional licensing requirements, work for several years under direct supervision, and even in private practice engage supervision (or co-supervision) in order to protect our patients and our ability to treat them.

Someone who works with children in an agency, school, or health care setting is under a lot of supervision and their time with their charges is quite limited and focused. I see no reason why a talented person with some borderline tendencies couldn’t be great at working with some patients. If they are unreliable they will lose their job for that reason. But they are no more unreliable than other people.

Certainly not over confident. You could argue over involved but we have effectively become one another's 'therapists' over the years so I am aware of some of her darker traits as she is of mine.

My anxiety is health related. I am basically a hypochondriac and I worry about the health of those I care about. This isn't related to why I have asked the question on suitability to practise though.

I couldn't possibly broach the subject of 'Do you think you are fit to counsel children having had a train wreck time yourself?' It would be patronising.

I am pleased to hear about the supervision processes that are in place.

OP posts:

Original poster

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 20:05

PoppyCherryDog · 09/04/2024 18:20

Couldn’t agree more. OP you’re just bashing people with BPD now. Please stop.

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Absolutely not. How have I bashed people with BPD by expressing concern over some of the behaviours I have witnesses in my friend over the years, and speculating on how that could potentially affect the job she intends to pursue.

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daffodilandtulip · 09/04/2024 20:02

I worked with a MH nurse with EUPD. She self harmed on shift, took regular overdoses but had no restrictions on having access to ward meds, overshared with patients, very labile mood and told constant lies. It's impossible to do anything about it because of discrimination laws but it's completely inappropriate.

Original poster

WonderWanda · 09/04/2024 19:58

ThePure · 09/04/2024 18:09

You think someone with a diagnosis of schizophrenia or bipolar who is currently well and stable on meds should somehow be barred from these professions??

Should they also be banned from any other vaguely responsible job like law or the police or teaching? Should they confine themselves to work where you consider they will not harm anyone by being 'detached from reality' Would they be OK to stack shelves in a supermarket do you think or shall we go back to locking people with these diagnoses away in asylums?

You do realise that these are treatable conditions and that many people with these illnesses are well and 'normal' for much of the time? Your language is really dark ages levels of discriminatory.

Medicine and psychology are regulated professions. You are responsible to your regulatory body for your ethics, conduct and your health. As long as you abide by a treatment plan to control your symptoms and recognise early warning signs I can't see why people with MH conditions should be barred any more than people with diabetes or epilepsy who might have a hypo or a seizure in the workplace. If you do pose a risk you will get reported and dealt with.

HTH

I never suggested they be barred, I questioned how ethical it is to provide mental health support if you suffer from certain mental health conditions yourself. Other PP have been useful in explaining how monitoring and supervision processes work to recognise if a person is fit to do the job. Talk about adding 2 and 2 and getting 5.

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XenoBitch · 09/04/2024 19:54

fightingthedogforadonut · 09/04/2024 18:25

I did an entry-level counselling course years ago - largely because the listening skills gained were useful in my day job at the time. Oh my god, there were people on that course that were so unstable they should have never been allowed within 10 miles of a vulnerable client! Talk about 'physician heal thyself'. I stopped the training after level 1 because I had no real intention of ever training as a professional counsellor. But some proper headcases went on to counselling degree courses. I was appalled by how low the bar for acceptance into these programmes was....

Fucking hell... "headcases"?

I am glad you didn't pursue counselling if you would refer to people that would potentially need the service in as such a way.

wavingfuriously · 09/04/2024 19:51

pikkumyy77 · 09/04/2024 15:23

we do have an ethical responsibility to our patients to put them first (in terms of the therapy), to maintain appropriate boundaries, to treat appropriately, to not practice outside our area of competence. Some of those professional responsibilities are monitored and enforced by authorities or colleages or licensing boards.

Some mental health conditions might make that harder or impossible, others would not infringe those rules. Imagine a therapist with periodic depression? As long as they take their meds, don’t overwork, do their self care the patient would be unaffected or even benefit from knowing. Ditto for a therapist with PTSD.

A therapist with a major personality disorder is another thing but those are not always diagnosed.

Are you a psychiatrist?

missin · 09/04/2024 18:43

You would hope that a clinical psychologist is working amongst plenty of other professionals and it would be very much noticed if they were suffering from a current psychosis affecting their view of reality

Therapists on the other hand, yes there's more room for interpersonal problems from MH ... but how you know someone as a friend suffering from EUPD is extremely different to how their clients will know them. The relationship isn't a personal one for them to bear their own problems to

AntonFeckoff · 09/04/2024 18:35

I’ve known quite a few medical doctors with bipolar disorder, including two psychiatrists. I also know a pharmacist with bipolar disorder. What do you think people with these diagnoses should do? Be restricted to working in a warehouse or on a farm or something? Why shouldn’t they pursue a career they’re capable of? There’s plenty of batshit people around without a MH diagnosis.