To thinknit's a bit shit that we have to compromise our true political beliefs to getbtories out/ keep Starmer out/ insert political party you hate?

I don't think so...I think what power do I have, and how can I use it to best protect ourselves? For me that means no Tories and no reform and will vote however I need to, to help that happen.

Now we've left the EU any future party can change a lot of our legislation that we take for granted and that is frightening. I would have considered labour in the past, but they are already taking advantage of leaving the EU and I certainly won't be going near reform which means probably Conservative.

Also, I seem to remember that the referendum date coincided with a big world event (although I cannot remember what it was.) So coverage on polling day was overshadowed and very few people voted.

No, we were given a vote on AV, which is not PR.

I still think those who voted against it on that basis were stupid, but AV is not PR, it's just slightly less shit than FPTP.

I vote for who I think is the least worst akin to my own values and opinions and never vote tactically.

@CantDealwithChristmas the stats and you are bang on the money.

In 2015 under PR we would have had 82 UKIP seats and 24 seats for the Green Party the Conservatives would have still won but lost seats as would have Labour and the SNP would have had 25 seats instead of 50.

PR would have given a Government more in tune with what the population wanted overall but many wouldn’t have liked it.

We were given the choice of that and it was soundly rejected by the public.

Not really the point I'm making though. It doesn't matter which party we're talking about the same logic applies, no one votes for them because no one voted for them last time so it's a wasted vote. This was what went wrong with the Lib Dems, they started to get some traction and actually seemed credible. If they hadn't got into bed with the Conservatives it would have been interesting to see how they would have performed at the next election. A lesson for aspiring governments there, don't blow it at the first opportunity because it's probably just going to undermine your growth.

No, the Greens don't stand a chance because, if anyone actually knew what was in their manifesto, they'd be laughed out of every election for being no more sophisticated than a GCSE Politics group project.

An environmentally-aware party is a good thing, but it doesn't make for a functional government.

The Greens don't stand a chance because you don't vote for them because they don't stand a chance. You have to take a longer view. If more people voted for them this time then next time more people will be persuaded it's not a waste of time. Change takes time, unfortunately. And yes, PR would solve the problem

I know what you mean.

You do your best but it seems that sometimes that is...

JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH

We have extreme now. Extremely shite. Very damaging. The longer the tories' extreme greed and indifference to everyone but themselves is allowed to fester, the more extreme society's response will be, surely.

Everything in the UK is about money now, everything. It's unliveable, almost.

Breaking the red tory-blue tory deadlock is the first step towards a new system. It's a long road. Vote whichever way you have to, to get them removed.

That's how Scotland wound up with crazy Greens like LornaSlater and their ridiculous policies.

Monster Raving Loony Party all the way!

Indeed.

It takes time - years - to become as corrupt and venal as the Tories are. (Admittedly they didn't have so far to travel). By the same token it would be impossible - administratively and politically - for any incoming government to start off that that level of self serving. So let's aim for that window of opportunity and then be ready to kick Labour out when they have developed "inpoweritis".

Yes. But for the love of GOD, let's Vote The F*ing Tories OUT!!! 🙏

Hmm. Have you heard what Sunak/Braverman/Anderson etc have said recently? And noticed the rise of Reform?

Meloni and Sunak are friendly.

We are also in a precarious position but FPTP allows people to ignore it as "fascism couldn't happen under FPTP"

If the polls are right, Labour will get in with a landslide.

Im more interested in the NHS, cost of living, and housing than anything else.🤷‍♀️

jane you are on fire! Agree with your posts 🔥🔥

Swedish Democrats are providing support to the moderate coalition as part of the Tido Agreement; neo Nazi AfD is polling 23% across Germany with exception of Berlin and this would translate to a significant presence in the Bundestag were there to be an election tomorrow, Meloni is in power in Italy...PR systems in my view enable these extremists whereas FPTP makes their road so difficult they tend not to bother. There's a reason why the UK has thankfully never seriously flirted with parliamentary Facism as our cousins in Europe regularly have and still do.

The Lib Dems paid the price of being grown ups in a nursery.

Sorry, I disagree. That’s life, you have to compromise, and sometimes take the better of two options that you don’t want.

The only parties that can "define what a woman is" are the SDP and Reform. There is a gnats fart between Conservative and Labour position but somehow the Tories seem to have done a better job in sounding convincing in their fudged position.

Really?
I blame the people who didn't bother to pay attention or vote in the ATV referendum, and the voters who voted to stay with FPTP.

Also the Tories for gerrymandering the boundaries in their favour.

Blaming the lib dems seems a bit much.

@CantDealwithChristmas none of the examples you refer to have been in power, whereas the current Tory party is captured by nasty right wingers and people who are incompetent by any reasonable standard.

PR also makes it easier to choose someone who may not be your normal chosen party, but has something you agree with such as local campaigning, or traditionally non-party issues. And the chance under the system used in the Irish Republic of a genuine independent person.