To wish I’d never had children?

If life were inherently shit, it would be universally experienced as shit. And yet, it is not.

How do people who think that life is shit account for the fact that many people are happy, optimistic and hopeful about their lives and that of their children's lives too?

People are allowed to say life is shit, because, in general, it is.

It is horribly expensive to live, we all know that. Then there’s a NHS, which is shot to shit, climate change, the threats from China, Russia and North Korea, the knowledge our freedoms could be taken away from us at any time, A.I, and this generation and future ones being, in general, very unlikely to buy their own homes.

What sane person would willingly bring kids into this fucked up world?

So many on here are saying “life is shit” as though this is a universal when in reality it’s very much subjective. YOUR life may appear to you as being shit but many people, who have faced difficulties and challenges that are inevitable, love and enjoy THEIR lives. It’s not just luck however and is very much a mindset issue. Unless you are facing absolute poverty (starving and homeless), untreatable physical pain or severe mental illness, there is nothing preventing you from finding happiness, but of course you must actively seek it out.

While it may seem less than ideal to rent rather than own I myself am still renting in my early 40s despite being able to afford to buy. I will eventually purchase a property but not owning a house has in no way impacted on my happiness or sense of well being negatively. I just prioritised other aspects of life over home ownership for example the ability to move to different cities and even countries and the preference of avoiding large debts such as mortgages. 100 years ago most couldn’t afford to buy a property and many lived in rooms in lodging houses or rented properties their whole lives.

People adapt to the circumstances of the world in which they live and still find happiness because happiness has little to do with material possessions but is more connected to the relationships and connections we make with others as well as an understanding of who we are and what our role in the world is. Often we reach this understanding through service to others. Motherhood is one such example of service, perhaps the most rewarding. And the fact that the OP has children who are as she describes cheerful, should give her a great sense of satisfaction with what she has already achieved in life.

No, I don't but they are personal to you. The OP is talking in general. Most of our generation knew that if they worked hard they could buy a property. That is not the case now. The OP's generation and her children's generation are likely to be renting for the rest of their life.

I was generally a happy person (despite losses difficult times etc) I always saw the flip side. After I had my third child(not immediately maybe a year after) I struggled to see the joy. I was unhappy, those around me seemed unhappy. There was no joy.

I got some help in the end. I had CBT to challenge my negative thoughts, hypnotherapy to calm my anxious monkey brain. I took up yoga and meditation. I learnt to see the joy.

I still have the same life , same kids, husband, family and friends, But now I am content, I look at my life and I see the good and the bad but I don't let the bad distinguish the good ( all the time, of course it happens occasionally I'm only human) I enjoy and focus on the good times. This is the exact same life I had when I couldn't see the good times. It was like I was blinkered to them.

People often question the key to happiness it's gratitude. If you are grateful for what you have you are happy.

I'd really recommend focusing on getting to a better place.

Ah, okay, then I absolutely agree, then. I had thought you meant that people were being driven to despair by malign forces - you never know who you are talking to on MN 😁

I can see how making a stoic outlook a national virtue would have made it more difficult for those who struggle with poor mental health to seek help but I think we threw the baby out with the bathwater when that was culturally reimagined that being stoic is bad for your mental health - when, I suspect, it is quite the opposite.

I agree with you OP, but I’ve always known life was shite and that’s one of the many reasons I chose not to have kids.

But maybe your kids will be lucky and live a charmed life. Life isn’t a struggle for plenty of people. Maybe you and I are just two of the unlucky ones. I try to find the slivers of good in the everyday. (It’s tiring).

I feel you OP.
I think it's absolutely possible to love your children but not love parenting itself.

I used to be so social and fun, work hard all week then go out with my friends at the weekend. We'd go drinking, out for meals, cinema, gigs etc.
Then at 25 I found myself single and pregnant. I've been a single mum for 6 years now, no longer close with my (childless) friends who still go out every weekend, go on holidays or who are married to their work / video games. I haven't really made any friends yet as a parent and life is so very lonely for me and my DD.

She has a nice life, she's a happy little thing. She goes to all sorts of after school clubs and gets nice days out, she always has plenty of toys and books and things ... but at what cost to me? My whole identity is now just... a mother. I get no break whatsoever, its relentless. I have no hobbies, I can't exercise, I have no social life. It's very upsetting and unbelievably draining.

About once a year, I go to the doctors for a blood test to check whether there's a medical reason I'm so tired and demotivated. According to my latest one last month, no. Medically my levels are still all okay, I'm just sad and lonely...!

Why is buying this own house so important to him? Especially at 17.
In lots of other countries France and Germany, possibly Italy too it's quite rare to own a house (according to the people I know) and most people rent.
And as for retiring, he's got years and years to build a decent pension.
I don't mean this nastily but is it possible he's picked up a negative attitude from you??

When I say there is a spiritual crisis in contemporary society I don’t necessarily mean in a religious sense. It’s a general lack of the stoicism that the British used to be so famous for. The understanding that life is suffering, but we don’t give in to despair, we endure and ultimately we thrive and enjoy the beauty and joy that exists alongside the bad.

Well put. I had bloody awful day at work yesterday but I've woken up this morning, my garden is green & growing & ive got some yummy food in the fridge for dinner, im ready to tackle the day!

My circle of friends and acquaintances are generally happy. I don’t think your experience is the norm

This is true for me too. Ive had periods where things have got my down but they've had clear causes (a miscarriage, a bad job i needed to leave) and haven't left me feeling awful for that long. I love my life.

@IMustDoMoreExercise

I am the same age as you and we had it easy compared to parents of young children nowadays so I don't think you can compare your life with the OP's.”

With respect, you don’t know about challenges that I/my family have overcome (are dealing with).
I chose to be positive.

How sad that you feel this way.

Possibly not depression as so many others say, you just sound very disillusioned.

Taking the little joys from life, however small has helped me massively over the years. I read somewhere that you cannot feel sad when you are feeling grateful. Getting into the habit of thinking of everything you are grateful for.

I love what you've written so much. 💘

I think suffering can teach us a great deal. I don't know who I would be without it.

I tend to ferociously love people. I want the people in my life to know how loved and appreciated they are.

Maybe I wouldn't be that way without the trauma? Maybe the things that I'm so passionate about would be a little less vibrant?

Either way I like who I am and I like how I love, so I'm grateful this is where I ended up. xx

This is beautiful. I’m also the survivor of a traumatic, abusive childhood and I love life now and never take it for granted, despite the inevitable suffering we all must face. I think it’s usually those who have had real setbacks and difficulties early in life that are usually the most resilient and able to appreciate the good in life as adults. When I say there is a spiritual crisis in contemporary society I don’t necessarily mean in a religious sense. It’s a general lack of the stoicism that the British used to be so famous for. The understanding that life is suffering, but we don’t give in to despair, we endure and ultimately we thrive and enjoy the beauty and joy that exists alongside the bad.

But to be fair we get to choose our outlook.

We get to choose what we consume in the news.

We get to choose our friends.

We get to choose how we treat people.

The happiest people I have ever met as a collective were in Ethiopia. People who had so little but understood how truly wealthy they were.
It was very humbling. Painfully so in ways.

YOU are choosing to see the bad in everything.
You’ve said how happy your kids are.. well there you go, that’s because they aren’t thinking negatively about everything like it seems you are. Your kids are here. You can’t put them back so enjoy them, spoil them, look for the positives in every single thing… because that’s the best option.
With a parent hell bent on only seeing the worst, your poor kids will end up feeling the same!
Do something now to change just one little thing a day!! You won’t regret it.. I promise.

Huge hugs. 😢

I'm so sorry for your losses. I know how awful they are. It can be a very lonely grief.

Sending you so much love. xx

Thank you so much for that. 💖

I've somehow found the most extraordinary people along the way who have taught me so much grace and kindness.

I've been spoiled by great friendships and teachers. Utterly spoiled.

One of my middle school best friends died at 42 from nonsmokers lung cancer. I watched this beautiful woman leave this world and say goodbye to her husband, her 10 yo daughter, her parents, with so much love and joy and appreciation. It was beyond inspiring.

All she wanted in those quick 6 months between diagnosis and death was for everyone to know how much she loved them. She said I love you over and over again.

I've learned from some of the best and bravest. 💖

Ok, but you don't know my circumstances or how I arrived at this outlook.

Life may be 'absolutely miserable' for you, and if it is, I'm truly sorry. However, those of us for whom it is not are not 'pretending'. We just experience the world differently. I will admit that I struggle to understand the mindset of someone who truly thinks that everything sucks: is there genuinely nothing that brings you joy in life? If that it true, that really is a medical issue and can be helped with drugs, not necessarily with talking therapy. While I agree that therapy is next to non-existent on the NHS, a lot of paid therapists are also not much use, I am the last person to suggest therapy as a panacea. Healing the way you look at the world has to come from within.

" How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard. "

This made me cry, thinking of my dead unborn children.

You are absolutely amazing and I doff my hat to you. You deserve every ounce of happiness that comes your way.

To all those telling her she needs to get help from her GP,: we all know there is little to no help available on the NHS, this is useless advice.

Completely agree. I'm so sick of everyone pretending like life isn't absolutely miserable. There's nothing you can really do.

What helps me is sitting back, watching the shitshow and knowing one day it will finally end naturally.