To wish I’d never had children?

Well yes and I'm a strong believer in comparing down not up. I'm just saying all this "blink blink what do you mean?" stuff is a bit silly when it's an acknowledged problem that there is a growing social divide between those whose parents/grandparents are boomer home owners and those whose are not, due to our crazy property market. Of course a kid in the poster's son's position will have to work harder and sacrifice more than a lot of his counterparts with a totally unearned leg up and that's worrying for him. Yes I know boo hoo life isn't fair but when you're 17 you may not have the maturity to just accept that without a bit of sadness.

I felt exactly like you in my 20s. I'm now in my 50s and I can say that I am happy all the time and live my life, every minute of it.

All the investments in time, money, energy, efforts, compromises have payed off. I wouldn't change anything.

Back to the point of the thread - most people I know personally are happy or at least content. Most are financially ok or better and we have upcoming weddings and babies in the wider family so lots of good news.

Although on a day like this with driving rain it’s the not easiest to feel sunny.

I agree that things have got worse in recent years, but I would not let a 17 year old assume that he’ll never own a home. You were right to reassure him. He might not be able to afford one in certain areas though - I accept that.

My DS23 is buying with his GF. They’ve saved up 10 per cent deposit. They’ve done this by choosing uni courses that lead to relatively high paying jobs and saving like hell - both spent little on social activities and clothes. He never expected to buy on his own - as we never could have.

They can’t afford to buy near us so have moved away 20 miles to a cheaper area. Location is one thing you have to compromise on. They’re also prepared to do some on the place and avoided new builds.

DS16 is obviously aware of this so doesn’t think he’ll never be able to afford anything.

We also don’t live anywhere near London - we had the option to go there decades ago and would have earned more but staying in the North was the best decision we could have made.

You do sound depressed. We all have moments of despair, but our essential life force keeps us pressing on, in spite of the challenges that the world faces us with. When people are depressed, the spark that keeps us going is extinguished and we can only see the dark side of things - and cease to be able to take joy in the good things.

Please remember that sites like this attract comments from people who are feeling low and looking for advice and that this does not represent everyone - it is skewed towards problems.

I do think a chat with your GP would be a good idea.

I agree with you OP which is the one of the reasons I chose not to have children.

@NCprivatelife so you can have a home, you just don't want to do it that way? Because that's all I'm hearing.

If you have a loving family you can stay with, you're at a significant advantage. That's not a have-not.

I think it's clear what the poster is talking about. It's well understood right now there is a clear divide between the haves and the have-nots in this generation, with housing costs so high the only realistic way to secure a mortgage in your 20s/30s is to have family help. And yes if the poster's son wants to live at home with his parents saving most of his salary for 5-15 years, he will be able to save up a deposit; but if he wants to do what his friends from better off families will be doing in their 20s (staying in halls, moving to London/another city for a graduate job, enjoying earning a salary, living in fun houseshares, partying at the weekend, travelling the world, finding a partner and moving in with them) then he will have to sacrifice the deposit, or at least postpone it for a long while. For kids from poor/normal income backgrounds without propertied relatives to bung them £20k at the appropriate moment, they will need to decide between having a life now and having a life later, and that's really sad. It's fair to say it's not impossible; but it is fair to say also that some families can insulate their kids from having to make housing security a priority at a young age, and sacrifice much of what makes a youth for that, and some cannot. And it isn't just.

I agree with you Op, life is mostly kicks in the teeth and hard choices.

This is exactly how depressed people think. Many don't realise they're depressed but can only view life in a very negative way. Yes life can be difficult and painful but it can also be joyful and fun. I personally only know one person who think like you and they are depressed. Most people I know are enjoying life.
I think you should see a doctor for the sake of your children.

Everyone I know is unhappy

Really? I think this may be a sign that you are depressed, and when people are chatting to you and perhaps letting off steam about things that are annoying them, and you're taking that to heart. That, or you're mixing with some really unhappy people, and that must be incredibly wearing.

Everyone has moans and groans... but most people are happy, overall. Genuinely.

The biggest impact on your children's happiness right now will be your own.

Same . I’m a single parent and find the daily grind exhausting and joyless

How are the odds stacked against hi. When he has a presumably lovimg family he can live with for free?

I'm so sorry. Me and my friend had our babies around the same time, and she lost one of her beautiful twin boys very shortly after birth. I couldn't even begin to understand the strength she found to go on, to as you say 'love life, hope and dream'; I still can't three years later. She is my absolute hero, I would give anything to be half the person, wife and mother she is, not just surviving this terrible thing but continuing to grab life by the balls and really live, for her other children, her husband, herself. You are a hero too. I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope that as the years pass, the terrible pain will ease and life never gives you anything so awful to contend with again 💐

You do sound depressed.

You have happy and healthy children, you have so much to be grateful for.

I think gratitude and being happy are closely linked.

I'm a single parent with a teen dd (who has her own struggles) but I feel so grateful to have my lovely dd, a nice (very small) home, I have food in the fridge, a job that I enjoy, family and friends.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to the OP to pathologise her thoughts and feelings - it's not necessarily depression. I have feelings like this sometimes and I'm not depressed. The nation is depressed and under strain, so of course we are feeling that (our public services, government etc). The changes that have happened in the last decade have made many people reevaluate the point of bringing children into this world. There seems to be so much more risk and uncertainty for them, a lot more grind and a lot less joy. If we interpret all our normal responses to our environment as our own individual 'depression', how will we hope and fight for change on a societal level?

When I feel like this I find it helps to focus on small pleasures and on the parts of my life that make me feel safe. I switch off the news for a few days, get outside for some nature and fresh air, and remind myself that nurturing my relationships with my dc is all I can do right now, as well as trying in my own small way to make the world better. My dc are here in the world now and I still believe they will make a positive contribution to it. I encourage them to consider living overseas too and to use their votes wisely when they can. And to find their purpose in life.

I think life is amazing and I think my kids are incredibly lucky to be born in a country and age with so much access to day to day comforts and access to knowledge.

Yeah, I can see how they would have an easier time of it had they been born twenty years earlier but, shit, point out to me any other time in human history and I'd say you can keep it.

I have to say this outlook utterly baffles me. Who wants their children to be rich and famous, or be professional-level musicians or sportsman??

Literally all I want for my children is for them to have a decent level of self-esteem and resilience; for them to follow their own interests and opportunities instead of feeling like they have to serve the needs of others; and to feel like they've had a fair chance at life; and to be readers. I don't care if they end up as hairdressers, hippies living in a commune in Wales, management consultants, SAHMs, opera singers, farmers or refuse workers. My honest view is if you have enough to live on, a secure housing situation, and can come home at the end of the day and enjoy a good book, then life can be very good indeed.

In fact in my experience it's relationships with other people that have the most influence on happiness, and the quality of those largely depend on what you're willing to put up with, i.e. self esteem. So literally all I want my children to achieve is the knowledge that, no matter how attractive, intelligent, wealthy, talented or successful they are or aren't, they are unique and important and 100% worthy of being loved and treated well, and to accept nothing less from anyone.

The idea I'd be disappointed if either of them weren't rich and famous, or homeowners, or married or whatever is crazy to me. You can be any and all of those things and still as miserable as sin.

Op, I was one of those people on those threads and my story is horrific. Twin neonatal death. But I agree with the others, you sound very down. Kindly, I think you need a bit of therapy.

I say this because yeah 5 months ago the above happened to me. The worst thing imaginable but I still love life, and hope and dream.

Take care of yourself. I think this thread will give you perspective and I hope you are ok

Ah OP I feel your pain and sadness. Life is hard and the relentless downward spiral the world seems to be taking right now is frightening. I worry for my kids too. And sometimes it seems beyond hard and futile just to keep trucking on.

But it is worth trying to see the good; we are all here; we're alive! And, and I genuinely mean this as something positive, it is always possible to die. This is true for you and for your kids - there is always an exit door and we can walk through it any time we like really. So why not wait and see? Wait for the weather to turn, to step out of the door and smell the sap rising in the trees and the sun warming the paving slabs and feel the life inside you answering that? To talk with that friend who always makes you feel so seen and understood, who always leaves you laughing no matter how serious the things that you've both shared? To share a joke with your kids that randomly escalates until you're all crying with laughter and can't stop? To start reading a book which totally sucks you in and takes your thoughts in a direction that they've never gone before? To see your kids fall in love and get married, or achieve something they're proud of? To hold your grandchild? If and when the darkness closes in again, the exit door is still there waiting. But if you wait there will be moments worth experiencing.

So much for the sales pitch. You don't mention being suicidal really, just darkly cynical about life and your former 'naivety' for thinking it was worthwhile. So can I ask - what used to give you pleasure? What makes you unhappy now? What do you fear for your children's futures that you wish you could spare them? Can any of this information be used to form a plan that can improve the outlook, or even just your day to day quality of life?

Also, and I hate to be so tedious, but we are machines of flesh and blood and chemicals, and our brains and our feelings are only functions of these things: so are you getting enough sleep, enough exercise, enough water, eating well, getting hugs? Feeling miserable and hopeless can make all these things harder to do (not to mention small kids can make sleep next to impossible to get), but ironically, if you can do them, you can't help but feel better, and if you can't you absolutely will feel worse - it's just the machine doing what it does. I mean even if your perspective on the world now is 100% right and realistic - and who am I to say it isn't? - do you want to just FEEL better, day to day, even if it's just a trick? Do you want to inculcate your kids with healthy habits that will make them better able to endure what life throws at them? Sleep, fluids, sunshine, nutritious food and oxytocin - these are the hacks that can make you feel happier even if there is genuinely nothing to be happy about.

Philosophically, it's a valid position that life is suffering, and you're not wrong necessarily about that. But practically, if you plan to go on, you might as well make it as pleasant as possible for yourself.

I hear you. I feel 100% the same way. I feel immense guilt on a daily basis for bringing a child into this world.

I have nothing to add to PPs really but I'm so sorry you feel like this. Life is hard, very hard at times, and it gets on top of most of us at some point so YANBU to feel this way. I hope things feel brighter for you soon.

@Jf20

I said this to him. And said if you work hard you can achieve it
But let's face it the odds are stacked against them unlike those of us in previous generations

And we're an ordinary family not rich and can't help them with deposits etc

Why will he never retire or buy a house, why does he think this at such a young age, instead of putting plans together to ensure he can?

I feel like this sometimes

My 17 year old was upset last night as he said he was sick of everything being depressing and he's realised he'll never retire or buy a house

I tried to reassure him while secretly thinking he's right 😔

Mine are 17, 14 and 10 and I do believe when they were planned and born the world was a better place