No phone for secondary school

One of my eldest children's chemistry teachers can't stand all the technology. He says it just gets in the way of teaching his subject. He's trying his best every day but as @Helar rightly says it's wasting teaching time asking pupils to focus on the lesson instead of their numerous gadgets.

10 mins a day extra play outdoors, x5= 50 mins per week. Add that up over a term. We are potentially looking at several hours extra outdoors time at the beginning of the school day. That's priceless.

Loving all the different views on this. We really need loads of discussion around this topic.

I had my kids outdoors today away from screens (6 and 8yo). 1hr 20 mins to run an errand in town, walk in and bus it home. Fresh air, chat about what we see. Loved it every second.

Headteacher at their primary school insists that parents don't bring children in until 8.55am (Bell rings 9am sharp ) I ignore this and have for months and months and get there at 8.45am every day so that they're out in the fresh air for as long as possible playing with other children who also show up early. They need that outdoors time before school. Not looking at screens in the morning.

Obviously if it is needed for medical purpose then they would need to have it, but presumably that’s quite a rare situation and doesn’t apply to the majority of kids who have smart phones. If it is only 1 or 2 kids in the school who have one it’s going to be a lot easier to manage misuse than if every child has one in their pocket.

You can have all the community discussions you like, DCs who need a smartphone with them and on at all times for medical reasons are still going to be doing so whether the school community likes it or not, and whether a school bans them or not.

Obviously you would hope that they are not being misused, but that remains a possibility as you rightly say.

Our school is also strict - they need to be turned off in bags from the start of the school day and not taken out till the end of the school day. My Son wouldn’t dare take it out as I imagine its detention for using it in school time, not to mention the consequences at home too (losing having it). I think this is what most Secondary schools have adopted - ive not heard of any schools in our area where kids are walking round on smartphones at lunch/break.

Unless you’ve been in a lesson or supervising the playground you might be surprised. Many schools had these rules, but children are so addicted to these things that they are sneaking them out all the time unless they are locked up. Even if your son is not doing it, you can bet he is losing instructional time from his teacher having to deal with kids constantly taking them out and playing on them, then kicking off and refusing to hand them in because they are completely addicted and unable to regulate themselves. In my experience, the only thing that really works is locking them away, if they are brought to school at all .

I imagine a child without a smartphone on the bus is most likely sitting next to a friend with one, so still probably looking at one/using it
This is why I’m saying we need a community discussion around this - your child is only as safe as the least protected child with a smart phone at the school.

The problem with the phone is that is in their pocket all the time and follows them everywhere and other people can contact them on it or send things unsolicited, and they are using it outside the home without any supervision at all. It’s all singing, all dancing, and gets brought out all the time instead of socialising or engaging with the world around.

A desktop computer is much easier to supervise, obviously doesn’t get taken around with them, and an iPad can be set up so that it doesn’t have an internet browser at all, just whatever educational apps you need. They are also easier to supervise ans the screen is bigger, and they are easier to take away , to leave at home, after a task has been completed. They are less disruptive and addictive than smart phones, but yes they still do need supervision. iPads can be almost as bad as smart phones in school if the parent allows them to be loaded up with games, messaging and social media apps. However, If it’s only got wifi then they can’t be using it all the time out of the house like a smart phone.

I take the point about price, but a basic desktop computer and dumb phone will be cheaper than a smart phone. It depends what the priorities are for functionality versus protection.

Just to point out, you can be pro-smartphones for 12 year olds (very happy with my child having one for use on the bus/out of school) but totally against use in school time.

Our school is also strict - they need to be turned off in bags from the start of the school day and not taken out till the end of the school day. My Son wouldn’t dare take it out as I imagine its detention for using it in school time, not to mention the consequences at home too (losing having it). I think this is what most Secondary schools have adopted - ive not heard of any schools in our area where kids are walking round on smartphones at lunch/break. I dont have a problem with him playing games on it with his friends on the bus.

I imagine a child without a smartphone on the bus is most likely sitting next to a friend with one, so still probably looking at one/using it.

Eg a dumb phone for calls. A home desktop computer for word processing or internet research tasks. Print out the bus timetable and put it in your bag. Plan your journey in advance and print out a map if if required. A smart/bluetooth speaker/ Yoto player for music/audio books/ podcasts. An iPad with only specific apps loaded on to it, without access to the internet or any messaging or social media etc.

How much would that cost? That home computer and even ipad carry the same risks unless supervised 100% of the time.

Smart phones without social media. That's what we need. Only educational apps allowed. No pron. No vacuous crap.

DS almost 14 has a smart phone but hardly looks at it. He prefers going out in person to spend time with friends or cycling or chatting with parents or his siblings. I am glad he is neither up nor down about it.

Definitely don't rush to getting them a smart phone.

Thanks for posting about the Jon Haidt talk. I have forwarded on to my eldest as he agrees that social media is ruining the minds of young people who are constantly using these phones from a young age. So sad seeing the young boy scrolling an imaginary phone. Is this what it has come to?😔

This is not necessarily true. I'd say I'm more anti smart phones precisely because my kids have had then over the last eight years. I would do some things differently if starting again. I'd be trying for solutions that didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater though. We should be able to use phones with the useful stuff and not the bad stuff but without that depending on individual parents having to become experts in creating layers of security.

Years ago on here people tended to be competitively chilled about not restricting or supervising their kids phones but I wonder if that might be changing a bit now. For kids with things like ADHD or even just the ones stuck sitting near noisy classmates homework and class materials being online is a godsend (which doesn't mean unrestricted phone or computer use is appropriate, just that they can be useful). None of this is black and white.

Also OP you have to remember that parents who have already given their kids smart phones will have a strong need to justify it to themselves, and to focus on the positives (which of course there always are, with any device or parenting decision in general) and to downplay or deny the negatives.

If they are not teachers, they also only see how their own child behaves at home, and do not see what impact smart phones have on children in general, and on the community.

Whereas I as a teacher can see that the negatives far outweigh the benefits.( as described above)

Itmatters what other parents do and it is your business, because your child is only as protected as the least protected kid at the school. Before the ban, kids were sending horrifically violent and pornographic videos around by text or airdrop, bypassing any controls you as a parent might set. They were also taking photos and videos of other children and posting them on social media. Along with the insidious distraction, limited attention span, addiction and disruptive behaviour associated with them being in bags and pockets.

Hence I have chosen a school with a strictly enforced ban on phones for my kids - they are locked up bell to bell if brought to school.

You can usually find a different device or solution that provides more of the specific benefits you want without some of the dangers of the smart phones.

Eg a dumb phone for calls. A home desktop computer for word processing or internet research tasks. Print out the bus timetable and put it in your bag. Plan your journey in advance and print out a map if if required. A smart/bluetooth speaker/ Yoto player for music/audio books/ podcasts. An iPad with only specific apps loaded on to it, without access to the internet or any messaging or social media etc.

Smart phones are banned in all schools where I am

Apart, of course, from when there is a medical need for them to be on and with the pupil at all times…

My older 2 dc had smartphones from part way through year 7. My 3rd is considerably less trustworthy so he has one (currently year 8) but is only allowed it when he is out and might need to contact us. Dc1 (aged 17) has Instagram and discord, dc2 (aged 15) has discord. Dc4 is in year 6 but won't be allowed any kind of phone for a while, and will have a non smart phone when the time comes.

I’m a teacher where s mart phones are banned. In low socio economic areas, schools have computer rooms or banks of laptops that the classes use as required, or the school library has laptops that it hires out to kids at a low cost.

Homework is communicated in class and students write it in their diary. Tasks requiring a device would always be optional and there would be a screen free alternative. This is just about schools/teachers changing their practice and can be done. Speak to your school if you’re unhappy about device use.

I realise that my kids will need some kind of phone to contact me when out and about and to make arrangements and speak to friends, to allow developing independence. When I was a kid. I had a call home card for pay phones and a house phone.

However, a dumb phone will be fine for this.

Schools should not be requiring kids to use phones during the school day. As a teacher, I think that is terrible practice and you should complain. Smart phones are banned in all schools where I am. If tech is genuinely required for a learning task then they go to a computer room or bring out a laptop /tablet for it , depending on the school.

i see how damaging smart phones are. They are very different to eg using a laptop for a specific task. The laptop can be closed and put out of mind. The smart phone stays in the pocket, tempting and distracting them even when they are not looking at it.

children are hopelessly addicted to these things. They just cannot regulate themselves and I spend a lot of time managing those who are sneaking them, even though they are banned. At break time or during free time in class, they don’t want to talk to each other or are unable to maintain a conversation. I could have chatted for hours with my friends as a teen if allowed. Today’s teens just sit mindlessly and isolated staring at their phones. They are losing the art of socialisation and conversation.

More parents are waking up to this, so please stand firm and don’t be pushed into something you don’t want for your child because “everyone else is doing it”. Once you give in, it’s going to be almost impossible to row back . Delay smart phone as long as possible.

Kids are very smart! I got round all sorts of parental controls when I was younger just by being observant and curious about how things worked.

My daughter had a phone on Year 6 and that was before Covid!

@StillCreatingAName there are a lot of replies and posts on this thread so apologies if it’s been posted already but presumably you’ve seen this? https://delaysmartphones.org.uk/about/

there’s been fair amount of news coverage of it. You could get a group of parents together to delay together?

(my personal opinion is it’s the social media that’s the problem, not the device, plus lack of dialogue between children and parents, or parents not knowing how to use parental controls or insisting on phones being put away at bedtime etc. I also think secondary schools should ban all smartphones - some local to me only allow ‘bricks’. Smartphones are helpful for some kids for checking bus times etc).

Totally agree - the extremes on here though 🙈 People seem to think a 12 year old is guaranteed to be watching porn if they have a smartphone and others think they will deny their child the internet completely. A healthy middle ground is usually the answer to most things.

I wake up knowing im giving my kids a brilliant childhood and great education. Denying your child the internet is very inward looking and cutting them off from a whole world of information out there.

Good luck in school as they will using the internet/tablets from Primary school age (reception homework had to be done on tablets at our school).

We have different views and that’s ok. All the best

Can you not comfort your own conscience about your parenting in your journal or something? I don't know who you are and I can't help you.