No phone for secondary school

When people say smartphones can be safe with sensible parental limits, they're going by very limited anecdotal evidence that their child is fine, and against all the research that says many kids are not. This guy's conclusions on the boom in mental ill health in kids from 2010 onwards is pretty compelling

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/jonathan-haidt-wants-you-to-take-away-your-kids-phone

I think also there’s a big difference between what a 11/12 year old needs in terms of functionality. We’d still book tickets for example but would send a screen grab for tickets to scan. Also our user settings preclude his Revolut card on the phone for paying for stuff so he still needs to bring his card. In time we’ll relax all these things as DS will be doing things more independently.

For now, he’s had his phone a few months so we’re building up the discipline and trust. I think OP it’s not a floodgates open scenario and there’s a balance to be had. And also depends on your child to a degree.

For everyone saying they need WhatsApp, here’s some info from Barnardo’s

https://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/ceo-responds-whatsapp-age-reduction

The end to end encryption is a concern. WhatsApp has disappearing messages and also allows other people to add kids to groups. You can lock these features down but the child can override this. It’s one of the most commonly used platforms for radicalisation, and grooming. NSPCC has specific information on it as well. So I think if you’re going to allow it then you need to be pretty vigilant about checking it, bearing in mind things can have happened that don’t be on there when you check it. The read receipts can also create an expectation/pressure of having to reply.

We weren’t happy with this and so have insisted on iMessage for group chats. It does rely on everyone having an iPhone or an iCloud account. The one kid that has an android phone uses a parent email iCloud account, they are messaging each other about random gaming stuff mainly. DS mutes notifications during school hours and at night. They aren’t allowed phone use for anything not school related anyhow at school. There’s also a setting on iMessage where you can auto silence notifications when it gets really busy e.g typically if they are sending a lot of emojis to each other as DS finds that annoying/distracting.

So many things require an app these days, I think my life would be a lot harder without a smart phone. We need to prepare children for the world we live in, which is one which is increasingly requiring smart phones more and more.
we just need to put things in place to make them safe on them.

even if the school doesn’t require them for homework what about:
-keeping in touch with friends
-booking tickets/showing tickets to things (cinema etc)
-banking /managing money/ making payments
-anything that requires you to scan a we code (ordering food/looking up menus etc)
-lots of attractions require use of apps

We wanted to wait till DC was 13 but got one for 12th birthday. Mainly cause we realised all the other kids had one and he was having to take his laptop out to check messages and emails on Teams that are school related. Also taking photos of projects and they are allowed listen to music at times. So it was during year 7 for us.

We have not allowed WhatsApp, he’s not on the class chat. He has a message account with a group of ten friends. No Snapchat or TikTok and there’s limits on browsing time and sites. We got a refurbed phone and the cheapest contract. So far he’s using it mostly outside of school to listen to music and play chess on an app so it’s not been as bad as we feared.

My sons are now in Year 11, before they started secondary school the school itself made it very clear that they were not to bring phones to school at all. Break times and lunchtimes were for conversation not scrolling apps. We were surprised but, as the school is 15 minutes walk from home, decided they didn’t need to have it in their bag for emergencies either. They walked as part of a group passing a few friends houses that they knew they could ask for help at if needed. We took a deep breath and tried to be brave!

They left their phones at home on that first day and, despite the school caving a couple of years back and doling out Yondr tech pouches, they have never taken phones to school (they generally leave them in a pool of jam in the kitchen but that’s another story!). They have friends numbers and chat/message/game just like their peers but they aren’t slaves to their phones.

My daughter will go to a different secondary, probably with a gaggle of friends. The school allows phones so now I’m wondering if she could do the same as her brothers but, unlike them, the pressure is already on her as her friends who have phones have a group chat that she’s not on and she already feels left out. It’s tricky.

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not about the cost.

Just be sensible about it. There’s no reason phones can’t be safe.

I think the issue with “just say no” is that a big part of why parents let their child have a smartphone is the perception that literally every other child has one and so however strong your personal commitment, you are damaging their social life and marking them out as weird and different and making it impossible for them to fit in with their peers.

If more parents said no, it would legitimise it as an option and mean that you would know your child wouldn’t be the only one. This would make it more like any other parenting choice and so easier for those parents who don’t want phones to own their decisions.

I feel much more empowered to say no now that I know of a critical mass of parents from our school who feel similarly and who are openly saying they want to hold off giving phones.

Or should we just own our choices, put the work in, have sensible arguments that we can discuss with our kids (rather than random lines in the sand created by ignorance and fear) and be willing to say no?

This gets to the crux of the argument. "Created by ignorance and fear" is not accurate. The evidence is showing the very real risks of unmitigated exposure to smartphones on children.

When evidence began to show that seat belts saved lives, adults stepped in to legislate what responsible parents had been encouraging.

I think all this smart phone free childhood stuff is actually about empowering parents to say no. They know they should. but find it hard. And this is a way for it to be easier for them to say no.

How far should we go though? I disagree with a lot of the things DD's classmates are allowed to do,say, watch,wear etc. Should we ban Netflix, crop tops, fake tan, makeup and so on , just so it's easier for me to say no?

Or should we just own our choices, put the work in, have sensible arguments that we can discuss with our kids (rather than random lines in the sand created by ignorance and fear) and be willing to say no?

This is what annoys the crap out of me. I won't make parenting decisions based on what's best or easier for someone else/their kid.

Yes @GlitteryUnicornSparkles but people are saying that if smartphones are banned in schools then schools won't be able to rely on those apps. Parents shouldn't just roll over and accept the status quo like "ah well they need the apps for homework" and nothing to be done. Collective action is needed!

As a few others have mentioned already, my son’s homework notifications and timetable for the day are all on an app so a smartphone is required to access this. He’s also doing his Duke of Edinburgh and again all the logging for his activities is done through an app, so again a smartphone is required to complete the tasks.

I think all this smart phone free childhood stuff is actually about empowering parents to say no. They know they should. but find it hard. And this is a way for it to be easier for them to say no.

I think this is a perfect solution.

Schools can limit access to the internet via their wifi, if a student doesn't have access to data then it can be controlled.

If I'm being honest, I think covid was responsible for a lot of it, both in terms of schools and socialising and it became more ingrained/ "habit". That can change in time , especially as new generations grow up and probably should.

I disagree with absolute ,black and white solutions only though. For example I agree with DD's school that phones should be turned off / away. I agree with consequences if the rules aren't followed. I'm even happy to let teachers know if I have knowledge the rules aren't followed. I wouldn't agree to no smartphones for under 16's at all or not being allowed to even take one to school.

Hmm, but a lot of people were saying upthread that the smart phones were needed for school, that teachers weee using apps for homework and asking kids to get their phones out in class. That would not happen here, so there is certainly room to go further in getting them out of the schools.

Some schools here have put in lockers and the phones are only returned at the end of the day, which is the best way imo. If a device is required in class, it will be a laptop or an iPad. So a parent here would never be pushed into buying a smart phone “for school” as some parents were saying they were upthread.

Laptops and iPads can also cause problems for distraction, but they are less dangerous , for many reasons, most obviously in that are connected to the school’s wifi which has social media and inappropriate content banned.

How many kids are buying their own phones anyway? I mean sure they can make it a thing, but I don't see how it would have the impact you think it will.

The vast majority of schools ban phone use on site anyway, unless with explicit permission from the teacher.

Ban sales to under 16s - that’s what the UK Gov is currently consulting on. Ban use in schools for all ages - that’s what has been implemented here, with consequences as defined by the individual school.

Of course there will always be people who break laws and rules, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t put rules in place to protect children from harm.

Ban sales or usage? A 13 yo can't just walk into a shop and buy a smartphone anyway. They need to be 18 if it's a contract one.

If you mean usage , how do you police that? What would the punishment be?

Why do you believe that this would be effective when it clearly doesn't work (to the level you want it to) with cigarettes,alcohol,vapes etc.

Parents need to own their choices. If you want to say no ,say no. You don't get to take everyone else's choice away to make life easier for you.

If smart phone sales are banned for under 16s and they are banned in schools then that empowers parents to say “no”. It sets a community norm.

Of course they are not all watching those things or seeking them out, and most parents will have safe search etc on to prevent them finding stuff like that on their own devices, but my point is that if one child has access to those things, then all the kids have access to them, because they can be shown them or sent them unsolicited. It happened in a class I was teaching. A child sent round a horrific video by airdrop and I was saying “stop, don’t open it” but by the time they’ve been exposed to it, it’s too late and they might not tell you as their parent. Police officers need counselling after watching these things.

If your child doesn’t have a smart phone, they can’t be sent anything like that outside your home. School emails have filters on them and perpetrators are less likely to try to send these images in a way that is traceable to them.

If the phones are locked up at school then they can’t be shown anything like that at school.

Of course they could still say, here look at this, on the bus or out shopping or whatever, but it reduces the danger and opportunity.

Which is why I say that whatever controls you put on, your child is only as protected as the least protected child with a smart phone. If we all decide as a community that the norm is no smart phones til 14 or 16, then we protect all our children.

Ive been looking into the different phones that are available , actually, and there are some now that offer parental tracking, but no social media. Which PP gave as a reason for an iPhone. Or music playing, but no social media. So I think maybe smart phone/dumb phone is an unhelpful distinction as it’s not one or the other. The biggest problems are social media apps, picture and video messaging and internet browser access. I think in the past there weren’t these options. Phone companies will respond with products that meet parental demand.

My year 6 DGS has one, but it is limited to what he can do and who he can contact, and he has a spend limit. It is for things like contacting parents and grandparents

During lockdown a lot of charities provided laptops/ netbooks for school work, so it is possible to let the school know that there is nothing for them to use, and libraries (not that many are open these days). If they also cannot afford internet, they would have to download at school to bring home