No phone for secondary school

And I forgot son’s bus ticket being on an app as he busses to school as the busses offer the tickets cheaper.

So much is online now. All three even my primary schooler, homework are set on apps sometimes the homework comes though at 8pm they are told to routinely check the apps.

Ones time table changes weekly again on the app, the school will print it but often a class suddenly changes and you’d need a new one nearly every day. Lunch money is viewable on the app, no checking it for DD without the app so she would have to line up and pray there is enough money without it. Their honour badges and reward points are all on the app as are detentions and poor behaviour notices.

Dd’s school use six different apps for various school work plus the main school app, ds has three. Primary schooler has four apps. Then there is Google classrooms too.

Then theirs secondary school residential trips where a phone is almost top of the list. Tbh sometimes just the day trips too. They take the children’s numbers so they can have some monitored freedoms or are expected to go off on map walks (app maps no paper maps provided) and take photos to show what they found / achieved. Uploaded then via an app to make a presentation at the end of the day/trip.

Yes you could use a shared iPad at home for the homework aspect but if you’ve more than one child you now need 2/3/4 iPads and you might as well just get smart phones at that point. Plus a home iPad doesn’t help with checking lunch money while there as you’ve forgotten or if a class have swapped rooms or pe has just been cancelled so your now doing something different elsewhere.

What you’d need is school to go way back to being not cashless and everything printed and posted. No emails no apps back to old fashioned ways, but then they lose their eco credentials.

I don't think it's fair to call parents who want to delay giving their children a smartphone 'luddite'. They are making their own assessment based on their child, and the risks of having a smartphone right now vs not having one. A luddite position would be 'ban all smartphones for everyone forever' - what people who are wary on this thread are saying is more like 'I'm not sure that it's a good idea quite yet, maybe wait a bit till they are more mature'. Noone is saying that kids shouldn't ever be allowed a phone or taught how to use one - the question is when is the right age?

Sure, smartphones are useful. So are cars. It would be awesome if my DD could just drive herself to her own activities - so much independence and so much less burden on me. Both are also potentially dangerous - the difference is that in one case, there is a law dictating when the state decides children are old enough to manage the responsibility, in the other case it's left to parents to make their own decision as to when their child is mature enough and when the benefits outweigh the risks. Given the growing evidence of the problems smartphones can cause, it's not unreasonable for parents to be worried that 11 is very young to be given something so potentially addictive, and to worry about being pushed into getting one just because 'everyone else has one'.

He said it happens to loads of young people in the classes at the high school, it was common place. He has since moved schools and isn't affected by this now. Horrific. And that's not even within a parent's jurisdiction within the hours of a school day. What are parents meant to do?

He said he now turns off "air drop" mode in his current high school unless a teacher specifically requests he has it turned on.

It just shows even with the very of intentions, even schools are struggling with monitoring of devices.

My son gets the bus to school and in our city, bus tickets are cheaper through an app, so he got a phone when starting school. Also, the bus service is not very reliable, so now even at 6th form , he texts me when he gets on the bus, because if he misses it, there is not another bus for 30 minutes.

Yikes - did he report it?

DS said there needs more monitoring by schools. He said it isn't good enough. He said that as a 16yo.

DS has just been explaining "air dropping" on i Pad devices. He said in high school young people get pron images/videos "air dropped" in class. And that's in class time - not at home. He said this happened to him in English class on the school issued ipads. What hope is there for our young people???

Yes, and people have explained all of the reasons why a decent phone is likely to be needed for secondary school. Also, how you can achieve that without it costing a fortune.

Many of those reasons did not refer to contact with friends and could be things you didn't yet seem to have considered, like homework apps, timetables, dinner money accounts, bus travel etc.

You are keeping on about only one thing - friends and social media. Just don't allow social media quite yet, though they'll come across it anyway without you present as you can't stop them looking at other friends' phones.

To be honest, schools themselves are now in a halfway house of wanting/needing to appear to be banning phones on the one hand, yet on the other also now using the technology which requires them (homework apps, WhatsApp groups, wanting kids numbers when out on school trips etc.).

I agree op.

I regret getting my dd a phone when she started secondary, if I had my time again I'd wait until she was 13yo at least.

True and so do adults who are not at school also.

Most schools have banned them already it was a pointless exercise from the government. yet they still buy in all the apps and expect the kids to have them for home.

I didn't ask about their home based devices. Anyway, a smartphone with parental controls on it is just a progression of that, surely?

Then don't behave like one?

I didn't feel any pressure from other parents. I don't socialise with them and my only WhatsApp chat groups are with my close family. I've never been bothered about social media much either and only had any of it because it was where school provided updates for both parents and children.

I still recognise the need for phones that can run apps needed for school and travel as well as allowing you to track where your child is. My kids have survived school, university and work unscathed. Phone drama happened occasionally, but anything and anyone who needed to be blocked was blocked.

I agree with you OP. Your child's mental health is paramount. We collectively need to change the culture around smartphones and children.

Yes to being able to contact them if needs be. A non-smartphone will suffice for that. Yes to accessing WhatsApp to liaise with their friends. A shared home phone or home computer can allow that.

No to unlimited exposure to social media apps which do not stop young children accessing them and which are actually designed to feed off a child's insecurities and anxieties- see poor Molly Russell. It's been proven that the tech companies have purposefully designed the algorithm to keep feeding images and posts about suicide and self harm to vulnerable children. The tech companies are not held to account, although new UK legislation may help a small bit.

Look at the data around the sudden dramatic global spike in mental health diagnoses, self harm in girls and suicide among boys - all coinciding with 2010. What happened then? The iPhone was released. Apps and social media on a home computer are fine for occasional use, but a device suddenly in your pocket which can be accessed all day everyday? UK children now spend 10 hours a day on their smartphones. Jonathan Haidt talks about how this has replaced the play-based childhood. We restrict them in real life, but they move through the virtual world with no boundaries.

A child of any age can access pornhub, so long as they can type into a phone. The rise in misogyny in schools and violence towards girls by boys is not a strange coincidence. Our young boys and girls are watching this stuff daily once they get smartphones, and it's their introduction to sex and relationships. Where we once read Judy Blume they watch a woman being choked.

Until this unlimited free access to the entire internet and social media for children is dismantled I'll not be handing over a smartphone to my child.

And no, parental controls don't work when children are savvy and have been born into a world of tech. If they were working the crisis wouldn't be happening.

I agree with you that it generally isn't necessary for year 6. Mine did not get phones until they had left primary school and were just about to start secondary school.

People are pointing out that for year 7 onwards you are going to have to reconsider some of your stances or both you and your child will be at a disadvantage. There is no need to be pissing in the wind here.

@StillCreatingAName the thing is, you have to own your choices not looking at others to either validate them or give you compelling enough reasons why you should/shouldn't do x.

Most parents will do whatever works for them,THEIR child, their circumstances. They won't make those choices considering yours or your child's needs. You can expect that , just like you can't expect them to pick up the slack.

If you don't want your child to have a smart phone that's fine. Ideally you'd provide them with all the other tools and devices and put the work in yourself to make up for the lack of one , otherwise it's not fair on the kid. If some of the situations and scenarios given here (school bus pass, no family laptop/computer ,great distances etc. ) don't apply to you , even better. You have less hurdles so it should be easier.

I quite enjoy checking where my kids are on their walk home especially if my daughter is dawdling and not home by 4 pm! It saves me a lot of stress wondering where she is etc

Why don't you want to make your own life and your child's easier by linking up with them via a smartphone? Why aren't you concerned about the effects on your child if you fail to do this?

Get the smartphone, activate parental controls on it, only allow apps you are happy with and those needed by school or for travel, such as bus tickets etc. Monitor phone use and messages such as WhatsApp regularly and set rules at home about when phones can be used and where. It really isn't as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Be more flexible than you are currently being or you may find yourself backed into a corner. You could well find that the phone is needed for things that have not yet occurred to you.

This trying to make a stand against technology is pointless and just pissing in the wind. Children need to learn how to use it safely and that won't happen if luddite parents won't even get it in the first place.

You admit that you use your own smartphone to make your own life easier. Why shouldn't your child also have this advantage, especially with so much schoolwork requiring the use of apps? The time for them to start learning this is now, under some supervision from you.

Your child is probably relatively easy to deal with at the moment compared to what they are likely to be as adolescent teenagers who feel invincible and think they know it all. Believe me, I've been there three times over.

For sure

Yes I see your point, except that government (uk) has now "banned" phones in schools - or rather issued guidance. So secondaries are feeling pressure to find alternatives to homework on phone apps etc. A normal computer login system akin to what they use in universities would be more suitable.