No phone for secondary school

DH who is very tech savvy would not let the kids have their fingerprints used for school dinners as it is held on a database and then could be open to misuse in the future. However he is fine with the fingerprints on their phones as that is stored locally on the device.

@MsGoodenough ironically the recording and use of a child's fingerprint would be a strict no from me. The idea that could be hacked and used in the future would put me off.

Yes that drives me nuts too catgirl. My school doesn't require the kids to have a phone as timetables and homework are in their planners and lunch payments is by fingerprint. Before threads like this I had no idea some schools required kids to have a smartphone. It's insane.

DS’s homework, timetable., clubs, bus ticket and lunch payment thing are all phone based.

And then the school lectures us about the evils of Mobile phones.

Baffles me and I wonder how children whose parents cannot afford to give them a phone that can be used for all these apps cope.

i would much prefer him not to have one but he needs it for all of the above. I do like being able to track him but on balance I’d rather they didn’t have them

Plus I've read tishtash link to the scam and then suicide.
Suicide in young men is something that is also very worrying.
The MH of all teens is a concern. I know this, I don't know what the answer is but at least most schools try to discuss it as part of their PHSE. But that's a bigger issue than just a mobile phone.

@tishtashtoo

Plus I also disagree. "some of their formative years in a pandemic". Which school year do you think was "not" been affected by Covid. Or rather which school year do you argue was the most damaged by it? Actually it's probably mostly down to the individual child, their personality and coping skills, don't you think?

I've read many many threads on which schools year posters think Covid did the most damage to. Yes, I didn't have a newborn, baby, or toddler, during the time of Covid. So? People can't be penalised for how old their dc were during any incident.

@tishtashtoo
You do me a disservice, I haven't massively missed the point at all. I don't think I am incredibly blinkered, nor dismissive. Or patronising. You have focused in on only one of my posts, but I have posted many times. I'm not stupid, and I am well aware of the difference between children and adults emotionally, and the development of the frontal fortex. Not once did I ever suggest that any child should have "unfettered" access to the internet.

There's a question of balance. My 2 have enjoyed SM. I didn't need to monitor or put any restrictions on my 2 ds's because they didn't need them. But I appreciate that most parents would put some, because for most that's sensible. I personally believe giving a phone in at least year 6, in preparation for secondary, and little bit of checking is best. But you've chosen to take everything I've said to the other extreme, making it silly, which is not what I suggested.

I’m going to let my v smart DD read the research on this (which is compelling that it’s very unhealthy for under 16s to have a smartphone) and decide what she would do if she were me. I’d bet money she’d say she’ll wait til 16.

@Oblomov24 in your post you are massively missing the point and incredibly blinkered to the risks and dismissive of the core issue (not to mention patronising to the OP as mum to younger DC).

You say:
Do you yourself cry over SM? Do you feel bullied? Does it make you depressed? It doesn't me. The fact is most of us use SM sensibly, but still go to work, meet up with friends for a curry and a glass of wine. As I'm about to! In a minute, Saturday lunch with my girlfriends. Oh let me just check my messenger for the latest meet up notes! You need to get perspective.

Except the point you are missing here is..... you are an adult.
Children on the other hand are not emotionally or intellectually equipped to manage the array of risks which unfettered access to the web and social media. When they are impacted by something online the effects can be disastrous for them - why? Because they are still children and their pre-frontal cortex has yet to develop, meaning they are UNABLE to manage these scenarios.

In this article by the parents of a happy, healthy boy described by his parents as "street smart and not glued to his phone", they explain how his life ended as a result of exposure and unfettered access to the online world. Someone got to him and he saw no way out, unlike an adult would do. He was not vulnerable and no did he have poor mental health, but he was a child and therefore he responded as a child and was unable to cope.

And in addition to this poor boy, there are a growing number of vulnerable and unwell young people who are even less equipped, thanks to spending some of their formative years in a pandemic which your "uni+" children haven't had to deal with either.

But yeah let's shove a smartphone into their pockets from primary school, a 24 hour a day portal to access anything, everything and anyone the world, and letting anyone in the world access our children.

No-ones saying your son can't have his Nando's card, but children shouldn't have unfettered access to the web in their pockets. No doubt you'll think that's just "drivel".

Op only has young children, or an eldest yr 6, so is inexperienced. If you had older children you'd know. Most of us with uni+ children don't worry about this drivel. There are endless endless threads about this on mn. <<yawn>>

I agree either way the pp: @AIstolemylunch : "social pariahs and 'that weird kid whose mum doesn't let them have a phone'. "

Most of just want to fit in, be liked. That's a big part of secondary. Initially. For most, not all. We all find our crowd, eventually. So long as you've got one good friend, that's enough. Then we gain some confidence and rebel, eg no I'm gonna wear the clothes I want and let everyone know I'm into that hard core music scene. Then we go to uni, meet others who are also wierd, then we settle down to jobs and families. Or take an alternative path.

But phones, or denying your yr 6 one, do you seriously think it's going to protect your ds?

"I’ve just seen friend’s DCs have a hard time at secondary, lose interest in their interests and seem to be glued to phones. "

Nope. Most secondary children if they've got any sense are still out with their friends, playing football for a local team, doing gymnastics or whatever floats their boat, doing GCSE's and A'level's.

And? So what? Most people are glued to their phones. But:

Do you yourself cry over SM? Do you feel bullied? Does it make you depressed? It doesn't me. The fact is most of us use SM sensibly, but still go to work, meet up with friends for a curry and a glass of wine. As I'm about to! In a minute, Saturday lunch with my girlfriends. Oh let me just check my messenger for the latest meet up notes!

You need to get perspective.

Ds2 uses his phone for all sorts of stuff. Watching endless videos, playing endless x box tips, Football team chat on WhatsApp. He used his iPhone wallet to hold his Thorpe park ticket, then off to Nando's with mates, and use his i phone wallet with contains a Nando's reward card.

iPhone (or any other phone) makes all the above easy. Why would you deny your child that?

It doesn’t have to be like this. This doesn’t happen in other education systems. If you’re unhappy, complain. It’s perfectly possible to run a school and communicate with pupils directly without the use of smart phones.

There are a lot of feature phones that aren’t smart phones. It’s smart phones in particular that are the concern, not simple phones that can be used for calling and texting. Some have the ability for music or tracking etc.

Or let parents use their own judgement. My DS had one from age 10 that I monitored daily and he's unscathed at 16. I didn't personally allow any apps such as tiktok or Snapchat until 13/14, or any other social medias. But I wanted to be able to track him when he was coming home to an empty home at age 11 while I was at work. There's no way you can enforce no smart phones until 14.

Well the previous poster did say to ban them until 16 and in fairness you probably use your smartphone for a lot more than what you did at 23. I am not saying children should have unlimited access to a smartphone just that we need to accept that they are very much a part of everyday life and once you get to an age where you are fairly independent not having access to one is likely to hold you back.

My 14 year old daughter has had a phone since year 6.

she accesses homework through teams

She uses whatsapp for her dance group and family chats.

She has a pet instagram account which I’ve got access to from my phone, no other social media. She has life 360 so I can see she’s home from school.

im not concerned with her usage and she is open to allowing me to look if I ask.

I wouldn’t support a ban

This is rubbish, frankly. I first got a smartphone when I was 23 and it took me all of about 5 minutes to become accustomed to it. They are incredibly intuitive to use. But no one is saying ban them at 18, or even 16. Just wait until they are 14 to hand over a smartphone.

My DS has actually used his phone in classes from time to time, the teacher has got them to use it for a quiz and research. Generally they’re not allowed them out though. They (him and his peers) use Whatsapp A LOT though. Arrange meeting up before school, his football team chat, his scouts group chat etc etc. they don’t need the latest iPhone but not having what are effectively basic things like WhatsApp that you need a smartphone for does leave them at risk of being isolated.

We're in ireland so start secondary school later here 12.5/13 and generally speaking people get phones the year before . ( probably earlier in big cities)
A friends mom held off as she didn't feel that her son was mature enough but she caved pretty quickly as our school uses google classroom for all its communication and you simply couldn't manage with our it. Changes to class times, after school activities etc. he is still not allowed join any groups on snap chat or what's ap but it doesn't seem to hinder him too much .

I think phones can be a bad thing but it's like trying to hold back the tide .

We always gave ds's our old i-phones. But what non smart phone are you gonna get? Apparently the Nokia 105 has .... "pre-loaded games such as Snake, Tetris." Whey-hey. I used to love a bit of snake.
Lets hope your parental controls of the internet work well. Or that no one with a dd gets sent a dick pic!! <<vomit>>

And also prepare her for the world which increasingly requires the use of a smart phone. At 18 she is likely to go to university or work and there is a high chance that a smart phone will be essential. You need to make sure that she has sufficient time to get accustomed to it.

All I remember is snake and creating ringtones using the key tones, and £3.99 (i think) ringtones in the back of kerrang magazine! I never had enough credit to call friends (emergency credit only for calling parents), so still used the landline for most calls in the first 2-3 years of high school!

Me too. I started high school in 2001 and had a nokia phone. We used to prank call the boys on sleepovers!