Neither parent wants to live with their child fulltime what happens?

Read it again. I'm responsible for my own choices and actions. Not for the shit ness of my ex. I overlooked the red flags, that's on me. Your ex might have been one of the men who turned out to be crap only after kids but most crap dads can be spotted before pregnancy occurs if women have our eyes open.

one issue I think is that by the time we have the life experience and maturity to recognise a wrong un we are too old for babies 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yawn

Women responsible for men behaviour yadda yadda

Stock response they don't act like that before children why would you think they would they act like it AFTER

Ex used to cook and clean till we had children he still did some until the second one came along then he sat on his arse "bonding"with the baby throwing out instructions like a drill Sargent I did the work and took the baby off him he flipped out punched walls and left this was not the man I married not even close im still not responsible for his behaviour

That’s really not how it works. You can only decide your own behaviour. Not make others change theirs. I think both parents are thinking solely of themselves. Poor child is not a burden. They chose to have him. If the RP wants NRP to increase his hours she can ask but not demand. It’s his choice to up them or not. The RP can only choose whether she provides a home for her child or not. Why would it get so bad SS needed to be involved. I can only imagine if both continue to refuse to care for their own child that options will need to be sought and kinship care would be the first choice. Both parents are awful. That poor child. Selfish parents.

I know this won't be a well received perspective but as a woman raising a child with a feckless father who has never financially provided or done above 5% of the care - women need to be far more discerning about who they procreate with. So many of us overlook clear signs that a man won't be a good father because of 'love' or biological clock or sunk costs. Another demographic of women get pregnant unplanned and take some passively fatalistic view that they should therefore have the baby and make the best if it. Very few women in the OP's/my situation started out with men who genuinely had no red flags about their father potential. I accept that I have to take 100% of the legal, moral and emotional responsibility of raising my child because I made a poor decision of father for him. I simply can't expect him to 'step up' and take over because he can't and won't, and it would harm my child if I tried.

People on here are debating it because this is a forum for debate and we are all strangers to this child. So, we get to do that. The child's actual parents don't get to do that, because they are responsible for him.

If one of the parents is not being responsible enough, it doesn't mean the other one should do the same just to even things out. If the child asks in 10 years time' "Mum, why was I abandoned?" it won't really make him feel better if the mum says: "Honey, your dad was already doing it, so I did it too- for feminism and fairness! Why should he get all the spare time? Why do only men get to walk away with no scrutiny?"

Unfortunately it's also the case that someone being a hands-on parent and then suddenly stopping is more traumatising than someone who is always a more distant parent and remains consistent. So the mother is likely causing more trauma now than the dad.

<Sigh> Yes, of course it should be the same for fathers. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to repeat that before some people choose to acknowledge it.

There is really no point in trying to have your big "gotcha" moment. I said "mothers" because I was responding to the previous poster who said that the emphasis in society on the needs of the child taking precedence over fairness between the parents would deter intelligent women from becoming mothers.

Had the pp argued that expecting parents to put the needs of their kids before their own needs would deter intelligent people from becoming parents, I'd have said that that's good too, because the world doesn't need any more crap parents.

Exactly. As a lone parent myself, I can't force my ex to be a good father, as disappointing and annoying as it is. What IS in my control is to make sure that DS has at least one good parent and not 2 shit ones. And at least I can look at my ex and know that I have done my best and HE is the one that should be ashamed of himself.

I know. I'm not sure where anyone is getting the idea that anyone thinks it's OK to be a deadbeat dad. I don't think a single person has suggested this.

There is such double standards for this - it’s not ok for mum to need extra support after doing 90% for 11 years but it’s okay for dad to want to do the bare minimum? I expect her career, health, relationships etc will have suffered whilst dads free to crack on as if he’s child free.

Of course it's ok for mum to need more support. It's not ok for her to make her kid that she chose to bring into the world feel like an unwanted chess piece. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about this. I cannot forsee any situation in which I would preferentially shove my kid towards someone I know didn't really want them rather than giving them the love that they need and deserve. We can dress it up all we like and play the blame game but I think most loving and responsible parents would find this situation absolutely unfathomable

Shouldn't it be the same for fathers? Why only mothers?

Literally NOBODY is saying it's ok for him to do the bare minimum, are you actually reading the replies?

What people are saying is while it is unfair, it's not the child's fault and what is "fair" has to come second to the child's needs

The situation will never change whilst women are being told they are lucky their exes don't bother because they "get the kids all to themselves" something I get told on MN often because my ex doesn't bother with our kids I'm lucky to get them all to myself, wtf?! Heaven forbid wanting the father to step up and be involved with his children! It's not "luck" I can see where this mum is coming from although my ex has never had our children even a single night (but don't forget I'm "lucky" he hasn't) 🙄

I really feel for your relative on this one.

There is such double standards for this - it’s not ok for mum to need extra support after doing 90% for 11 years but it’s okay for dad to want to do the bare minimum? I expect her career, health, relationships etc will have suffered whilst dads free to crack on as if he’s child free..

Sadly, whatever is right or wrong, this will be damaging the child leaving him feeling unwanted and damaging relationship with mum more than dad as she’s the status quo. She does need to take him back and argue out the rest behind emails and closed doors with dad. Could SS help with funded after school care? Could a family or friend take a pick up a week to help out? There’s often things they can access but not necessarily openly offer. I hope she is getting support in real life and not flamed.

Well, I hope it does put people off being mothers if they aren't prepared to put their child's needs before their own need for fairness. The world really doesn't need any more crap parents.

A "fair setup" has come second to the child's needs.

But how does this method of getting a “fair set up” show her child he is loved?

actions speak louder than words and the actions here are telling a child nobody wants him.

The mother wanting a fair setup doesn't mean she doesn't love her child. I completely understand why the world is the way it is from these responses though. I think it must put off a great deal of intelligent women from being mothers.

This happened to a family friend. She’s now in her 50s so a long time ago but when her parents divorced when she was about 8, neither wanted her. There was a whole long court case and they finally agreed to send her to boarding school and split 50-50 in the holidays, but she’s always been damaged by this (as you would be).

Just to add, I’ve never dream of doing what this woman has but the vitriol and nastiness aimed at her is appalling based on the OP so far non drip fed post!

dear god, poor kid.

@ICantThinkofAnythingClever what sanctimonious claptrap, and if those things aren’t relevant why is everyone one here arguing about it? Why, again if those things aren’t relevant, this mother, according to the OP has been driven to such lengths after 8 years.

Nobody has said it’s not absolutely traumatising for the child either.

Then you have some money. We can't afford a cleaner or a nanny.

DH is working essentially full time hours around DS needs for peanuts (£5k a year, technically self employed), which is depressing, but we have little choice as he needs to be available for school drop off and pick ups or be around if DS refuses to go, plus there are appointments and meetings, workshops etc with various services. My job is WFH and fairly flexible as long as I'm available for certain meetings.

I'm on betablockers for anxiety.

We've arranged everything we can around DS needs, not sure what else we can do without more money.

The father of this kid is of course an asshole. But it doesn't really matter if the arrangements with the father aren't "fair". The child is here already, he didn't ask to be born, he is a real person and he needs care and love. Theoretical fairness, feminism, the patriarchy etc. are completely irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure the kid can tell that neither parent wants him, what with the mum not taking him back from the dad's after holidays, and he will remember this his entire life. His therapy bill in the future will be pretty hefty.

Double standards need to change if the government doesn’t want our birth rate to decline to that of certain Asian countries as women are waking up to this inequality and are making the choice to be childless more and more.
why should it be, when two people both make the decision to have a child, one can just decide to mostly walk away with very little societal and legal pushback?

I agree with this

I know I'm gonna get slayed for this but.... we all have a choice who we procreate with. IMO our moral duty when we choose to become parents is to prepare as much as we can for things we can control but accept that there's a degree of uncertainty that comes with being a parent. We need to be ready to put the child first if bad things happen. Yes it's unfair that often more pressure is put on mums to do this but you can't force anyone to do what's right so there we are. It doesn't absolve the other party of responsibility whether mum or dad.

My dd is only 6 and already 2 of her friend's mums have passed away. Did the dads hold their hands up and say it was too hard to be a single parent? Heck no! They stepped up. They're brilliant dads working tirelessly to shelter their kids from a shit situation and shower them with the love and stability that they desperately need. I haven't seen an ounce of self pity from either of them who were put in this situation that is completely unexpected and out of their control. That's the duty that you accept if you have children.

There's absolutely zero excuse for what either of these parents are doing. It's vile