Pensions… again

If the state pension was means tested there would be a disincentive for people to pay into occupational pension schemes. People have sacrificed income at a time of their life when they had mortgages and children to pay into private/occupational pensions. Why would they do this when it would just mean that they lost eligibility for the state pension. There are already some disincentives for saving. The very rich are okay, poorer people get their rent paid and pension credit, people with small private pensions are no better off for having them. Means testing would make things worse for people at the margins.

Op, the state pension is funded today, by people paying national insurance. There is no pension pot like a private scheme. Therefore when you reach retirement age people born this year and next, and next rtf etc will pay your pension.

It is estimated that as a whole, pensioners will be worse off.
They will not benefit from the NI cut, as pensioners do not pay NI anyway.
They will be paying more tax, as pensions are taxable, and higher pensions mean that more will be drawn into paying tax, especially as the tax rate was not changed. (known as fiscal drag).
The Uk state pensions is considered the worse in Europe, and in my opinion, more people should be encourage to get additional company pensions, many of which were not able to do so, until pensions changes in the 1980s.

I don't like to burst your bubble OP, but you can make it as clear as you want, you can rant and rave all you want, you can put forward your wild theories all you want - but you have NO influence whatsoever so you might as well crawl back into your pit. 😂

Pensioners might be the wealthier demographic but you need to analyse the actual breakdown.

The vast majority of pensioners just exist, if that , on a pension that is one of the lowest in Europe. Many Europeans have much higher pensions but have also endured much higher taxes including much higher local taxes.

"Prove we will be able to afford it? Any decent projection says we can’t."

No we can't. We have far too many people not working due to 'mental health issues, " sickness," " flexibility."
This doesn't really work in Europe.

Too many people claim benefits in the UK that are not even available in Europe.
That's because there's a working culture in Europe. It's seen as a shame to not work in Europe.

I agree that we can't afford pensions but that's because we, as a country, don't want to pay higher taxes, like they do in Europe!
But pensioners , today, have been falsely led to believe that National Insurance would fund their pensions.

In the early 90s I stopped working in my City job as there were no nursery places or wrap around care. My husband earned more than me so I stopped working. According to today's figures, I'd have received untold benefits.

We didn't.
We struggled and didn't have a holiday until my eldest was six years old. It was a week in a caravan.
We lived hand to mouth.

And yet I'm expected to give up my pension because I'm a sponger?

We can afford pensions by stopping funding for spurious medical reasons. There are multiple posts on MN where posters suggest signing off rather than work.

I'd like to see prescriptions means tested.
I'd like to see travel cards means tested.
I'd like to see families , taking their children out of school , absolutely hammered unless service personnel or extraneous circumstances.

And here's a thought... maybe charge tenants extra for getting free boiler changes/services, free maintenance, free decorating and free gardening?

I'm being flippant and angry but I look at my elderly mum , who pays the state to care for her care. Yet she was promised' from the cradle to the grave.'
She has no pot of riches.

Todays pensioners didn't get some hours of free childcare.
Todays pensioners weren't afforded the possibility of wrap around care.
Todays pensioners didn't have maternity rights.
Today's pensioners had to endure pension shortfalls due to caring... both men and women.

Or everybody should live in a cheap area. People won’t be able to move around for fear of triggering off losing their pension. Sounds great.

Ah so everybody should be on interest only mortgages or simply aim to not pay their mortgage off in order to keep a state pension. Sounds like great financial sense.😂

Exactly. There are many many people in London who bought average houses in their 20s or 30s, paying eye watering interest rates, at a time when many areas hadnt even started to gentrify and prices were not that much out of kilter with other parts of the country. When we bought our previous house, the interest rate went up to 18% in the two weeks between exchange and completion; admittedly it didn't stay that high for very long but we still had a long period of paying interest of 16%. Around 75% of our combined take home salaries went on our mortgage and rates. What are the people meant to do who are now retiring and living in £1m houses, which are often just average 3 bed semis? Should they be forced to downsize before receiving the state pension they've paid into all their working lives?

If you’ve got mortgage outstanding then you don’t have £1million pound asset.

Yep.

OP post is about pensioners right now. "They shouldn't have an increase because the country cannot afford it"
This is utter rubbish.
These pensioners have not had the free child care etc.
pensioners deserve the increase and more.

A third of mortgages won’t be paid off by 65 and that’s only going to get worse.s

Well if they don’t then it will be the fault of your generation, the pensioners of today will be long gone. Because as you said, it’s not a savings scheme, it’s not being kept in a vault for you. You’re 32 , unlike pensioners, you’ve got years ahead of you to make money, and if you can’t make enough money and pay enough tax in to the system to ensure your future in the welfare state, then work harder - and for longer. Simple.
Apparently.

And say you have a shed load to still pay on it. Many many people have mortgages that won’t be paid off by pension age.

I’d like to see your sources for these claims.

Yep I’ll be stopping paying into ours so we don’t need to scrimp whilst funding our dc’s uni fees because they get the minimum loans. Would rather be less poor now and get a state pension.

How what? If you’re sat in a 1million pound house with a private pension no way should you be claiming state

So how does this work. If I'm living in a draughty 3 bed semi in London which just happens to be worth £1m because the property market is nuts, I shouldn't be allowed a state pension?

You are aware it costs a fortune to means test right?

Where are you cutting off? How much in a private pension and how much would a house be worth, how much equity? How much bio in savings?

Yep. I'm 46 and pay 40% of my salary into a private pension. DH and I sacrifice quite a lot for our pension pots. If I'm going to be means tested, damn right that 40% contribution stops and we'll have some nice holidays instead.

I personally think family help should go well before pension levels are changed. The significant funding given to families is very expensive. I would much prefer a system that provides 2 meals to all children at school and pays for all of their school books etc

If people are happy to milk the public purse to raise their children, then why are they surprised there is no money left when they retire?

You are aware there are multiple benefits that means tested right?

If you are saying anybody with a private pension shouldn’t get a state pension nobody will pay into a private pension. Pretty sure people would rather live a little when young and get the state pension.

So where are you cutting off? Is it based on property, savings, private pensions? Where is the money coming from to regulate it?

How what? If you’re sat in a 1million pound house with a private pension no way should you be claiming state.

I too have worked full time since I was 16.
I've have paid my tax and NI in full.
I'm am utterly appalled by your post OP and your subsequent answers.
The money we have paid through taxes, NI etc is there, please do not say it isn't. We are a wealthy country.
State pension is not a benefit.
We have paid into it.
Women were told they could retire at 60 but the goal posts were moved time and time again.
What happened to the 6 years pension payments for them ???
Pensioners deserve an increase and more.