Why shouldn’t life be made easier for pregnant women/mothers?

I understand your point about DV and blood pressure but some women do want their father there.

Also not all pregnancies are straight forward, I have a friend with epilepsy it is vital her husband knew / knows what to do, both generally and when she was pregnant.

She was advised to give birth in a particular hospital that wasn't local.

And I know the take up of paternity leave is crap, that's why it should be compulsory. That takes away the advantage men have by not taking time off.

Can you give examples of his in the workplace (which is largely what this thread is about)

I’m also fed up of the smarmy “pregnancy is not an illness” posts.

Well duh.

We know this. You know this. Saying this is just a thinly veiled sly way to remind women that they should STFU and be grateful because having the temerity to help continue the human race is revolting and selfish.

It's important to remember that just because you've chosen to have a child, and that is obviously precious to you, other people haven't made that choice, or aren't able to make that choice. Others end up carrying your workload or being a lower priority for something they don't regard as important to them.

Its neither the fault nor responsibility of pregnant women to organise cover for their maternity leave. If you work in an organistion that doesn’t get adequate cover for people’s leave, blame management not the pregnant women.

And if you have something going on then speak up and tell your bosses! If you have cancer you will get appropriate sick leave.

I genuinely didn’t give a shit what happened with my work either time I had a baby. Wasn’t my problem.

I think it's the difference between presuming you should be put first, and being appreciative when others chose to offer help.

Can I ask what you mean by being ‘put first’. If that means having reasonable adjustments made, and exercising the statutory rights to take time off for appointments - then I absolutely expect to be ‘put first’.

I’m not growing with thanks for my employer executing the statutory law they have to execute 😂😂 I hate the attitude of “Women, say thank you!” For things that are perfectly normal and not in need of thanks for

We old also be in a slight pickle if everyone had children. Due to overpopulation, overcrowding etc. You don’t want your child to be taught in a class of 50 do you? Making out that those who have children because they want them are doing everyone else a favour and everyone else is some sort of social freeloader is not helpful.

Really can’t get my head around the psychology of people who search out a site set up to support mums and then use it to slag off the whole concept of motherhood. Fascinating.

I think it can come from the shocking amount of entitlement that some women develop once they become pregnant, then have small children.

Like the attitude that pg women and children are little gods and should be lauded and revered to at every moment, and anyone else is a second class citizen.

Pregnancy isn't an illness although some women are ill while pregnant.

It's important to remember that just because you've chosen to have a child, and that is obviously precious to you, other people haven't made that choice, or aren't able to make that choice. Others end up carrying your workload or being a lower priority for something they don't regard as important to them. Other people have things going on in their lives too, old age, cancer etc

I'm a single mum, worked full time until two weeks before my due date and have always tried to not take advantage. I didn't expect anyone to give up their seat for me on the train although I was always grateful and said thank you if they did.

I think it's the difference between presuming you should be put first, and being appreciative when others chose to offer help.

I want to see time off work for men to accompany their partner to appointments

Why? They can’t be pregnant for them, and are neither use nor ornament at an appointment where a women largely has blood pressure taken and handed a leaflet about breastfeeding.

I think it’s also important to point out that these appointments away from men give HCPs an opportunity to ask women about DV. It may be the only time an abused woman can actually speak out and seek help.

I also find it interesting that the uptake with men for the much fought for shared parental leave is very low. It feels a bit strange that men say they want equality and to help women but so few take it when offered.

Why wouldn’t it be someone’s ambition? Not all parents are snobs and someone has to do those jobs.
My ambition for my kids is that they become happy adults. If that means being a bin man then I’m fine with that.
Either way it doesn’t matter or take away from the fact that @GoodnightAdeline is spot on
Inhave no idea why some childless people are completely determined that those with kids are somehow out to get them, when actually literally no one gives a fuck that you’re childless

Good old middle aged women being useful when handy when employers want to avoid the child bearers

What kind of help do childless people need? You don’t need children in order to claim benefits.

And who expects you to be grateful because they have kids?

Also yawn at the ‘im paying for your kids!’. Wait until you’re at age and where you need to rely on the state and NHS to care for you. How much do you think adult caters of parents save the taxpayer by doing a lot of the care?

I am increasingly concerned by how society is so child unfriendly. Children in the UK seem to be absolutely despised and dogs are revered. Very odd indeed.

My problem is that it makes women the default carers for children.

I want to see time off work for men to accompany their partner to appointments. I want paternity leave to be at least 6 months, on full pay and compulsory.

Move the P and C spaces away from the entrance and the cashpoints at supermarkets. Make a covered walkway so people don't have to push their child in rain.

Obviously there should be accomodations for pregnant women ,as women are the ones who are pregnant.

Yes, use this trope about your kids cutting the hair/caring for/emptying the bins/ cleaning the sewers for the childless.
Like that is your aspiration for your child.
Stop being so disinfuckinggenuous

We have 2 pregnant colleagues, from 9 staff. The work still has to be done when accomodation is made.

The last 3 vacancies were filled with women over 45... so I guess we should be thankful that age related discrimination will reduce a bit more.

I think the objection only comes when the expectations disproportionately affect other people in ways that appear avoidable.

Of course pregnant women must attend medical appointments. But if you work one day a week and every single medical appointment you have falls on that day, then colleagues will start to wonder whether you're taking the piss.

Or saying no when asked to do something that is entirely reasonable will make colleagues wonder whether you're using your pregnancy as an excuse to shirk at other people's expense.

I've been pregnant four times and know what it's like. But you get dickheads in every possible demographic, and 'pregnant women' are not an exception to that undeniable fact.

It's not selfish, that poster said she objects to yet MORE special treatment for parents, not that she has a problem with them being helped out to some degree, as they already are A LOT. Childless people get zero help whilst paying for all these kids that will one day (hopefully) pay us back-but lets not pretend it's a favour to us, or that parents selflessly had kids for the benefit of society. Just more examples of that special treatment some parents expect, if we're not constantly grateful for all their sacrifices raising the next generation, we can inevitably expect to have our old age thrown in our faces🙄

People with chronic health conditions are afforded flexibility in the workplace, and it's protected under law. If you've been pregnant then you know it's a tough gig. Even the simplest, most healthy pregnancies come with any number of bodily changes that can be difficult. I admire societies that afford pregnant women respect automatically. Same with the elderly and children (I'm thinking of many Asian societies that I've lived in or visited). It's just basic human kindness towards members of the community who might be more vulnerable.

Can you give examples?

Great post!!

I have five children and worked during the first three pregnancies.

I am of the belief that pregnancy is not an illness.

There are statutory provisions in place to enable access to antenatal care without prejudice. Employers should also carry out risk assessments for the workplace.

Clearly, pregnancy is harder for some women than others, and being open with the employer will help. Unfortunately, many women (including me) suffer terrible morning sickness when they are trying to keep everything secret.

I used to say things like this before I had children. I cringe when I think about it.

I think some people come on Mumsnet specifically to complain to/about mothers.
Because they are arseholes presumably.

They have a point though? It’s a parenting forum, it does seem odd to complain about parents on this of all websites.

I agree. Horrific post by @MuggedByReality I don't know whether to be embarrassed for her, or furious with her for her horrific attitude. She is not doing the childfree by choice brigade any favours. Most of them must be cringing right now. 😬