Why shouldn’t life be made easier for pregnant women/mothers?

I think your right however

it is fair for companies not to give you a pay rise when your going on maternity leave in a few weeks/minths

In this day and age (ie. the relevant one we're actually living in), having children is the choice. We have access to contraception.*

Whereas NOT having children may be a choice, but so often is not. Infertility, not meeting a suitable partner in time. (To be fair a lot of people don't meet a "suitable" partner but have kids anyway - but they still chose to have kids!)

(*Obvs aside from abusive situations)

@Feelinadequate23

The parent doesn't get any benefit for themselves

If it's of no benefit to you, why did you have children? Is it not rewarding, although hard?

they leave early to pick up the child and then have to work late into the evening once the child has gone to bed to make the time up

Well then there's no problem. PPs are talking about people leaving early without actually making the time up. Or getting all the best shifts/not working holidays.

These threads always bring out the kind of mean spiritedness that makes me wonder how society manages to function at all. Fact is, everyone needs everyone else to have any kind of life in a civilised society. If we were all genuinely out for ourselves then society would break down and we would all be running around lawlessly doing what we want a la Mad Max type situation. Maybe we should all try and work together better so that doesn’t happen?

This is idiotic, sorry. It’s like saying ‘doctors choose to be doctors, it’s a lifestyle choice, so we shouldn’t give them better working conditions. And people have always chosen to be doctors, so we’ll manage.’

the uk birth rate is in steep decline, by the way, and has been for the past 15 years.

Could it be argued that not having children is more of a choice - given the centuries of it not really being a choice and society being built around the existence of family?

A lot of posters here seem to have no empathy for how horrible it is to be childless when you don't want to be, and to then have to miss out on anything else that matters to you because of parents. Quite often events we may want to attend happen in school holidays/bank holidays (and certainly at the weekends), or wanting to meet up with family who have kids so school holidays is the only time available. Not to mention extra pressure/the most antisocial shifts given at work if you're childless. It's as if childless people are seen by some as not needing any meaningful relationships and shared times off.

I actually had to leave my last job as the timetable and demands became so ludicrous I mentally broke down (not helped by losing out on shared events that would have been a mental boost, because I had to work), after a new member of the small team started, with very specific availability due to having kids.

Of course society should make accommodations for pregnant women, and be child friendly in general. We need people to have children. But pretending it's some altruistic gesture for the greater good is ridiculous. I doubt any posters here didn't want kids but decided to have them for the good of society! They had them because they wanted them and get to experience all the rewards and meaning and benefits of having them.

In the workplace, it should be treated the same as reasonable adjustments for disability. The clue being in the word "reasonable". Ultimately if you can't do the job and others are having to pick up the slack to an unreasonable degree, you can't continue working there.

I posted earlier on saying that where I work, parents always get Christmas/summer hols off, never do late or early starts, never do overtime, regularly work under normal hours (on full pay) as they’ve got kids at home but don't get called out on it because when management is made aware they just tell us we need to be team players and support them etc etc etc.

Yes and when childless/free employees need support e.g for chronic health conditions or sick elderly parents they don’t get it. Being a team player only seems to go one way.

Well in this case as your colleague I would expect you to change that work day to another in the week that did work. I’d be royally pissed to hear that you were “working” two days but the clinic runs when it runs. This to me sounds 100% piss taking. Surely you just move your work day 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MuggedByReality I used to think like you before I had kids. Felt my free time was worth just as much as a mother's, so why should they get to leave early to pick their kids up, etc.

Now I have a child, I realise that these things are benefits for the young, vulnerable child, not for the parent. The child literally can't look after themselves, so they need someone to pick them up, provide their dinner, put them to bed. Surely you agree that as a society we need to have children, otherwise we'll have nobody to be our doctors, nurses, street cleaners, postmen, carers, train drivers and pension-funders when we are elderly? And hopefully you can also understand that children do need someone to look after them?

The parent doesn't get any benefit for themselves - they leave early to pick up the child and then have to work late into the evening once the child has gone to bed to make the time up, whilst the childfree are relaxing/out enjoying their evening. (Not that it's a competition or anything to be bitter about - I used to enjoy my childfree evenings or choose to work late to further my career, now I look after my child happily and then bear the late evening work, as I know it's a short-term necessity).

I posted earlier on saying that where I work, parents always get Christmas/summer hols off, never do late or early starts, never do overtime, regularly work under normal hours (on full pay) as they’ve got kids at home but don't get called out on it because when management is made aware they just tell us we need to be team players and support them etc etc etc.

I was told to get a new job, that I shouldn't mind working Christmas because us non-parents aren't making magic, and that it's not parents' fault but the employer's. Some people don't want to hear any actual examples, trust me.

And it is the employer's fault for enabling them, but you can see why I'd roll my eyes at yet another campaign for more preferential treatment in the workplace.

I remember about 13 years ago I worked somewhere where about the same 3 people would constantly nip out for fags about 4 times a day. Another colleague brought up that it was unfair that others worked more than they did because they didn’t smoke. The smokers genuinely thought it was the same because “well you at all stop work to make cups of tea don’t you” - they did too! And hydration is kind of a requirement 😂 of course the same people moaned when someone took time off sick or had maternity leave with absolutely no irony.

I’m also a bit of people claiming if women had too many rights it would be bad for them. Sounds like the misogynist’s charter!

I actually haven’t seen one example on this thread just random “she’s taking the piss” comments and I strongly suspect they actually mean ‘she accessed everything she was entitled to’.

The only sort-of example I saw was a hypothetical one of “she works one day a week and uses that day to see the midwife”. Firstly - it may also be the midwife’s only working day. Secondly, I’m assuming someone works only 0.2 FTE because they already have small children. It’s much easier to attend a MW appointment without a child wriggling about on your knee. It’s not piss taking if she’s actually taking what she’s entitled to.

Surely we are all affected by others lifestyle choices to a degree? I think drivers/cars get preferential treatment that negatively affect my day to day life, but it is something I accept as part of the society I live in.

Agreed

When pregnant with no2 I only worked two days a week. Unfortunately the GD clinic at my hospital only ran on one of those two days. I had a bit of a row with the Dr who wanted me to come every week to look at my diary of blood sugar readings - I'm capable of seeing for myself if it's between X and y and we compromised on bi weekly attendance but i wasn't "taking the piss". The clinic runs when it runs.

I do find your wording goady, because I do think YABU but this is because of your blanket approach.

In my opinion if there is a blanket approach, it will place a higher disadvantage on women.

Individual pregnant women may need extra considerations, accommodations etc. This will vary widely as that is the nature of pregnancy. It will also infuriate those who don't want them, hence the approach must be individual based.

The parent and child parking threads annoys the hell out of me because they are (generally) a courtesy and not equal to a blue badge. And the pure narrow mindedness of if under age X otherwise you are stamping on their "rights".

Honestly, I do wonder if they have a child of x years soon and realise the easiest time to leave a car is when they are a baby and cannot run off ,😉

This is unbelievable. Having a baby in a pram is a temporary situation. Being in a wheelchair is permanent and it’s not a choice.

Well that’s a special circumstance isn’t it. The vast majority of women don’t have factors like that at play. Men having time off for appointments that aren’t even theirs would be a piss take tbh. It would then have to extend to accompanying your other half to appointments in general not just for pregnancy - if they have epilepsy, type 1 diabetes or if you are involved in their care in any way. It would be chaos

What’s the point? People have done, only to be told that’s their employer’s fault. There’s no examples that you’ll accept as valid.

What "special treatment " exactly do you think pregnant women/ mothers get at the moment and what does it have to do with choosing to care for elderly relatives? I take it you don't have children from your attitude and you seem bitter about that.

Becoming pregnant is not always a choice

Anyway if men want longer paternity leave I’m sure they’re smart enough to lobby and campaign for it. But they dont

In which case I’m sure men with decent employers could request to have a half day or day off or even request paid leave to accommodate accompanying their wife. But I don’t think this should be a statutory right. Men aren’t pregnant and therefore don’t need the time off.

Im also surprised so many women are unable to reiterate to their OHs what the MW said to them that day.

Compulsory six months paternity leave?! Not even compulsory maternity leave is that long! Are men getting paid this whole time for that? Because they need to be if it’s compulsory.

Men getting paid for longer than women for taking paternity leave wouldn’t actually surprised me but you just see that’s unfair and ridiculous.

Also not all women want their men hanging around for six months and whilst 2 weeks isn’t enough IMO, six months is way too long. A baby doesn’t need 24 hour care from 2 people at six months unless they have a severe medical need.