To exclude one child from family holiday

Maybe just be a considerate person not try to prove how good and perfect you are with your smug sanctimonious posts.

OPs other posts shows there a lot more going on so there is no way you can just summarize it into: she lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents. And then act all smug like you've figured it all out.

I didn't claim, it's literally there in the post.

You don't need to keep quoting that, I wrote it, I've read it, and I stand by it.

You giving me telling off like a self appointed prefect is doing absolutely nothing but derailing ops thread.

It right there in your post, all summarized in a nice pretty bundle like a know it all. As I said your post was mean, accusatory and unnecessary. You start with such a ridiculous statement then claim you asked questions later, yeah that makes sense lol.

she lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

How did she sideline her daughter? What if her daughters behaviour was getting so bad she couldn't cope and it was affecting her other kids and going to her grandparents gave both sides some breathing room?

But our dear Dr Phil here has diagnosed it all and figured it so quickly. Welldone.

Her daughters behaviour was why she moved to her grandparents not because she moved to her grandparents place, and having a baby 6 years after her abusive ex died doesn't make OP a bad person.

And there you are using those ugly judgemental words again, "sidelined" her daughter.

'Threw a Paddy'???

@redalex261 She chose to go to her grandparents. But her mum just let her go.

By 4 years old Dd had experienced her dad being violent towards her mum. Her parents separating. A new man moving in with his child, and then her mum getting pregnant. At some point her father died.
She seems to have coped with all of this okay. But her mum getting pregnant at 14 seems to have been the trigger to push her over the edge into anger and resentment.

I don’t think you are unreasonable for feeling conflicted about taking her - clearly her behaviour affects everyone regardless of the reason for it. From what you have said she was not sent or banished to her grandparents’ but chose to go there when there was friction and it suited her. Her father’s death may be a reason for her acting out but it’s not an excuse. Yes, allowances have to be made but she can’t just be a complete horror and expect everyone to suck it up.

Can you sit her down on her own and first of all ask if she wants to come on a family holiday. Ask her to tell the reasons why she would like to come and why she wouldn’t. She is old enough for you to be able to say plainly why you would like her to come and the reasons you are reluctant to bring her. Be very specific with the questions and your reasons.
If she is to come it has to be conditional on both of you agreeing to behaviours as everyone else is affected by the friction, not just her and you. If she can’t agree on a way to manage her feelings she may not want to come at all.

Good luck. Teenage girls are torture at the best of times, add any trauma and it’s ten times worse.

Yet you're here smugly telling me off due to your own perceptions, I never said she jumped straight into bed with anyone, you came to that conclusion all by yourself.

But, yes, as it happens, I do think op is selfish, not for moving on, but for sidelining her daughter and then blaming her for the way she now behaves.

Some of this will be relevant but you also get really rebellious teens from families who haven’t suffered trauma, so not sure turning it all back on the op, who has posted for support and help, is very useful?

Yes she did but the way you worded your statement is obviously done to paint her as a selfish person who what jumped straight into bed with a other man after her dear daughters dad died and then shipped her off to her grandparents. As is said it's a very ugly mean way to phrase it but keep being you.

She didn't get pregnant until 6 years later, again context and details matter. You cannot summarize it in 2 sentences and act all smug like you know it all.

She did lose her dad.

Op did get pregnant.

She did start acting out due to ops pregnancy.

She did get shipped off to her grandparents.

Sorry if I didn't word it delicately enough for you I guess 🤷‍♀️

I have read most of the thread and the @Mama1209 responses. But I can't for the life of me understand why you let her stay at the grandparents.

I have a sixteen year old. Nothing and I mean nothing could ever make me house him elsewhere. It simply isn't an option. Given the timing (baby) she obviously feels replaced. You need counselling to repair your relationship.

You unwittingly broke the unbreakable bond, and now she doesn't trust your bond.

OP she has experienced a lot of trauma. Read up on trauma informed parenting.

If you were trying to ask a question without jumping to conclusions to get a better understanding you would not start your post with such an ugly and accusatory statement as: she lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

I understand that you did not move her to her grandparents, she chose to go there. But you allowed her to move out. As a child that will feel like rejection.

Counselling can help children process their feelings. But it does not change the family situation and how she is treated. It is why it is not a panacea.

Having a baby when she was 14/15, and having a 9 year old and your DHs younger child, will have meant you had little time for her. You can only stretch yourself so far.

Hi op, I agree with pps who advise communicating with her like an adult. I understand your worry about the holiday but I think it would be a really bad decision to exclude her given the circumstances. There is hope if you say she has been maturing and that you have been getting on better recently.

Could you take her out to lunch, one to one, on neutral territory and talk to her about the holiday. Ask her if she wants to come? She may not want to but best to make sure.

If she says no then make sure she knows you are disappointed (even if you feel relieved) and maybe offer her an alternative like a day out with friends, a weekend away with you another time or money for clothes so she feels she has had equivalent treatment.

If she says yes then keep calm and have a serious conversation about what just happened on the weekend break. Tell her to explain what happened from her point of view and LISTEN. Obviously tell her that you felt upset and disappointed that she wasn’t able to control her emotions and talk to you about what she was feeling. And of course make it clear that what she said was totally unacceptable.

Explain that, much as you love her, you have to consider the happiness of the whole family. Also, be honest, and tell her that you are worried that she might kick off again on holiday and what will she do differently if conflict arises again? Put the ball in her court.

Tell her what your expectations are for the family holiday and that she may have to make compromises for the happiness of the younger dc. Ask her if she thinks she can handle it? Tell her you trust her and that you think she can do it (even if you are far from sure).

She probably won’t be perfect op let’s face it, it’s going to take a while for her to reach maturity and stability but she still needs you to reach that point. Don’t take what she says personally; she’s expressing the turbulence and anger she feels inside. But try and start each day with a clean slate and make expectations and boundaries clear and be confident in your own mind about not accepting any disrespectful or insulting behaviour.

One question op though; you say she may have a personality disorder and that she has had lots of therapy. Does this not need further investigation if so? Have the therapists not offered any further insights in to this? The strategy above obviously does not apply if she is suffering from a serious pd as that requires professional help but it may work for an “ordinary” troubled teen.

This

Please look at your own behaviour OP. Your responses speak volumes.

Impossible. Mumsnet is peppered with posts from people who make shit up about other people's lives in their head then use it to beat an OP with.

Do her GP give her her own way for an easier life? When there's 2 younger children to consider things won't always go her way. Does she have a job or still in education? 17 is a bit old to be behaving like that unless she's Neuro Diverse.

Except I also asked a question, so didn't have it all figured out, did I?

All that happening within a couple of years to a vulnerable teen is massive.

Obviously you just wanted to use your super witty Dr Phil jibe, glad I gave you the chance, and you enjoyed it. I'm sure he would tell you that if you hate a particular kind of post you could just not read it though.

I hate it too. People just let their imagination run riot then post as if their wee fantasy were fact and they've got it sussed.
The arrogance of those who know a little then make up the rest. Fucking hell.

No it's completely the norm with all the teens I know.

She lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

I really hate when people do this ridiculous summarize it in 2 sentences and act like they have it all figured out like there's no nuances and other complications.

You write it like she got pregnant the next week after her father died and really shopped to grandparents????

Welldone Dr Phil.

A more thoughtful response than mine, so this too

17 year olds can be utter arseholes, but they aren’t adults thus being an arsehole (short of actually criminal behaviour) isn’t a reason to exclude her from a family holiday. And no your relationship probably wouldn’t recover. Sorry.

She’s nearly an adult though so I would take her out for coffee and say you are really sorry she is so unhappy and you want to help, but her behaviour on the weekend away was way way out of line, and if she does this on holiday XY loss of privileges will be the result,