To exclude one child from family holiday

Sorry, I agree with @InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow and your intolerant response to her doesn't help.

You may feel that you haven't pushed her away in the course of "moving on with your life", but she probably does. It's very unusual for a child to move out of home and live with grandparents, and in her case this coincided with you producing new children; there's no way she didn't feel replaced and unwanted, whether you meant it or not. You say she moves between homes when relationships break down, so she's had very little stability. I imagine it's been a long time since she's truly felt that she's centred and prioritised as a child would usually be. She exists on the periphery of your new nuclear family, she sounds very angry and insecure and you're here blaming her for the fallout and asking for support to exclude her further, rather than trying to fix the damage. This is one of the saddest things I've read on MN in years.

How sad for all of you.
How easy would it be to have an open and honest chat, just the two of you, about the holiday? To come to some mutual agreements about how you could both deal with any situations that arrive? Treat her like an adult and ask her what she feels and how you would both handle feeling angry or disagreements (I.e. space from each other, no raised voices, speaking away from the other children).
I think it would be a real shame if she was left out and that this could be a opportunity to build bridges. As you say, she has matured and this could be a totally different holiday.

These threads always make me so sad

This is a girl whose father died and then mum moves in a new bloke with his child, has a couple more, one of which being in a pretty crucial age for most young women as they enter their teen years.

You are the problem here

Instead of focusing on your child you focused on your own happiness and desire to move on and have more children. Both of those selfish decisions have led to your eldest suffering.

You shipped her off to her grandparents when you should have held her tighter. Going on this holiday without her will be the nail in the coffin of your relationship. If you are ok with that (which I think you might be) then shame on you

As a girl who's mother had another family yet was bought up by her grandparents, she will never forgive you and you will never have the same relationship as you do with your other children no matter what you do now. This is a fact. She won't forget that you didn't take her and you can't predict her behaviour that comes from a place of pain and a huge feeling of rejection.

I was ready to be quite harsh in my response. But she is 17 and not a child anymore.

I was the same, now in my 30's. Successful career. Amazing husband. First baby on the way. Unfortunately my grandparents are not around to reap the rewards of picking up after my mum. My mum now watches from the sidelines, she misses out.

You do you. She thinks you do that anyway.

She lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

No wonder she's acting up.

How much time do you spend with just you and her?

I think you're right that stopping her coming on this holiday could potentially end the relationship entirely, however it doesn't seem like you would be too sad about that.

Her behaviour isn't acceptable, however you didn't parent her when it started, you pushed her away while welcoming a new baby.

Could she be grieving for her father? Perhaps it's all coming out now. Can she access some counselling? I think a weekend away or a few day trips just you and her could be really lovely for her. Maybe she feels like the outsider ( not saying this is your fault).

That's what I was going to suggest. Regardless of how you mean it and how sensible a decision it might be for the rest of the kids, she might (probably?) will take it as rejection / not being wanted. So do something that she picks, even if it's just an hour or two to start with, just you and her.

Did the deterioration in behaviour when she was 14 (although let’s face it, that’s pretty standard) coincide with anything in particular - birth of a sibling, big argument with her stepdad etc?

If she was looking forward to an outing then behaved in a strange/ unusual way - perhaps she needs more support - is she potentially neurodiverse/ has she suffered major childhood trauma and not had enough therapy?

I think it seems odd to focus on whether or not she should come on holiday

Also - you are effectively saying you don't want to parent her - because it's easier just having the younger ones - has it always been like that?

Could you do something just you and her instead?

I had a difficult relationship with my eldest and she spent lots of time with her dad - she stopped coming on holiday with me at about 15 as she 'hated' my holidays (Eurocamp) but her dad did AI in nice resorts - we have a great relationship now though.

For me, what stands out from reading, she's been bereaved and 'replaced' and I am guessing their is a fair amount of anger being processed. You keep mentioning 'in front of the kids' so maybe the first step is to spend quality time JUST with her - not dragging her half siblings along so your attention is not on her - she probably needs some1-1 with you. No I wouldn;t take her away with your new family - it would make you both miserable.

I think this is not about the holiday and it sounds like she either has serious MH issues or has suffered huge trauma (lost her dad - you have new husband and kids - was she supported/ does she feel pushed out???

I hate these sort of conversations on mumsnet as people weigh in with short bits of advice and clearly there is a bucket load of family trauma going on.

My 17yo is still happily holidaying with us so I don't think it's too old although I stopped holidaying with my parents at 16. I'd give her an ultimatum. Talk about how the weekend went, what could have been better. Listen to what she says. Then ask her about the holiday you have booked and if she still wants to go based on the weekend experience. If she does make it clear that the behaviour she displayed will not be tolerated and you will send her home alone on a flight but if she spoils it. Listen to her as well though, she probably feels out of things living separately, included her in planning etc.

Yeah, at 17/18 DS would pass on a family holiday to France but definitely not one to the Caribbean or Disney in Florida. Where are you going?
That night be a big factor.
(Mind you if her behaviour doesn't show signs of improvement and she's all meh about coming -- don't bring her.)

I wouldn't have passed up a free holiday at that age. After 18 I didn't go on all family holidays. These days if I was offered a free holiday I'd jump at the chance! 😀

I would leave her at home. If she's 17 now she must be close to 18 by the time of your summer holiday, that's too old to be going on family holidays and ruining them.