Page 4 | To think he should have booked annual leave

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 16:06

AnxiousRabbit · 07/04/2024 16:03

If he was having half the holidays then he can't take AL for all of it
But if he's only having 3 weeks then I would expect him to either take time off, or do stuff after work

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Thank you. I suppose that part of my worry is that as she is with me for eleven weeks of the school holidays, there is no way that I can take annual leave for most of it. I get five weeks, while he gets seven, so between us I had originally hoped we’d be able to “cover” the vast majority of the time.

OP posts:

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 16:06

op she was bored 🤷

if she didn’t want to be there she’d have messaged you

if she didn’t want to go, she’d have mentioned. at last ONCE to you.

and i’m afraid this is bang on the money * I was told that his relationship with any of the children was none of my business, and I should stay out of it*

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 16:04

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 16:01

She was 8 at the time. Maybe I’ve been wrong, but I’ve never tried to come between them - bought her a phone (long before the age my other children had then) so she could speak to him whenever she wanted to, without having to go through me. He didn’t return the courtesy and removed her phone as soon as she arrived. I was not allowed any contact with her during the two week summer holiday she had there. The CAO stated that she had to be allowed to have a phone call with me every three days, but that was really hard to enforce, as her phone would have run out of battery, or there would be no signal or whatever other excuse there was. She suffered terribly with separation anxiety over it, but eventually accepted that this was how it was. I was told that his relationship with any of the children was none of my business, and I should stay out of it. I’ve tried not to make negative comments about him, but tbh that then limits ANY conversation about him, as there never seems to be anything positive to say. Now, she tends to just mention that she was “bored”. Maybe I do need to have a conversation with her about it. As you say, she’s older now.

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like your ex…. i also would restrict my 8 year old’s use on a phone
but he clearly doesn’t now

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 16:04

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:56

so she goes when she wants to basically
and has never complained to you about going
and didn’t contact you whilst she was there to express boredom / loneliness etc

doesn’t seem like she’s too bothered and i fact quite happy to go

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The calendar is filled in at new year, with every night that coincides with the CAO and what her father wants. Just makes it easier to keep track, with the weekends that she is due to go to his. She doesn’t complain, just doesn’t sound very enthusiastic about it. But that wasn’t my question, I was just asking whether IWBU to expect him to have taken time off work rather than leave her to her own devices for a week.

OP posts:

Rockfordpeach · 07/04/2024 16:03

My DD's dad has reduced his contact over and over until now he only sees her around once a year. The last time he had her (first time in the whole year) he had her for three days before Xmas 2022. He is a delivery driver and spent the three days working with her in the passenger seat bored. Then he told her she didn't deserve the Xmas presents he'd bought because of a minor issue at school and now wonders why she doesn't want to go round for his annual visit. His loss.

AnxiousRabbit · 07/04/2024 16:03

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 11:24

Quick overview - ex went to court for a court order in regards to seeing our youngest. Judge wanted to know why he’d bothered, as he asked for less than he was currently being offered, but whatever. Long story short, according to the order, school holidays should be split 50/50 (in addition to some weekends in term time). Ex doesn’t really abide by this, and this year DD (now15) will spend just three weeks (out of the fourteen weeks school holidays) with him and his new partner, this last week was one of the three. She returned last night, and has just mentioned that she spent the whole week bored in her room, on her own, as her DF didn’t book any annual leave, and she can’t meet up with friends while she is staying there due to logistics, transport and distance. AIBU to think that if he’s going to insist she goes for a week, that he should at least book annual leave? I really want her to have a good relationship with him, but it feels as if he thwarts it at every turn. She seems less and less bothered about going at all, but I don’t want to be the one to say categorically that at her age she now has a choice, as I worry it could be classed as “parental alienation” - I’ve always just been quite matter of fact about following the court order as if it’s a “given” rather than a discussion.
(and yes, I know I can’t FORCE him to do anything, such as spend more time with our DD)

If he was having half the holidays then he can't take AL for all of it
But if he's only having 3 weeks then I would expect him to either take time off, or do stuff after work

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 16:01

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:49

how old was she when you split

she’s 15 now and was alone all week with her phone. odd she didn’t talk to you about being alone and nothing to do whilst she was there

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She was 8 at the time. Maybe I’ve been wrong, but I’ve never tried to come between them - bought her a phone (long before the age my other children had then) so she could speak to him whenever she wanted to, without having to go through me. He didn’t return the courtesy and removed her phone as soon as she arrived. I was not allowed any contact with her during the two week summer holiday she had there. The CAO stated that she had to be allowed to have a phone call with me every three days, but that was really hard to enforce, as her phone would have run out of battery, or there would be no signal or whatever other excuse there was. She suffered terribly with separation anxiety over it, but eventually accepted that this was how it was. I was told that his relationship with any of the children was none of my business, and I should stay out of it. I’ve tried not to make negative comments about him, but tbh that then limits ANY conversation about him, as there never seems to be anything positive to say. Now, she tends to just mention that she was “bored”. Maybe I do need to have a conversation with her about it. As you say, she’s older now.

OP posts:

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:56

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:52

She has a calendar and doesn’t arrange anything in that time.

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so she goes when she wants to basically
and has never complained to you about going
and didn’t contact you whilst she was there to express boredom / loneliness etc

doesn’t seem like she’s too bothered and i fact quite happy to go

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:52

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:48

so she’s 15 and never had any plans that clash with going to her dad’s?

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She has a calendar and doesn’t arrange anything in that time.

OP posts:

Zanatdy · 07/04/2024 15:50

I think it’s the age most kids stop going as they want to see friends. So yes he should have booked some leave if she’s only there for shorter amounts of time now given she was restricted what she could do.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 07/04/2024 15:49

Make sure she knows she doesn’t have to go unless she wants to. Up to her at that age.

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:49

The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

and what did she say?

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:49

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:48

When we first split, her father refused her access to her phone when she was with him, and I was not allowed to make contact. I suppose we’ve just got used to very little contact in those weeks. The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

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how old was she when you split

she’s 15 now and was alone all week with her phone. odd she didn’t talk to you about being alone and nothing to do whilst she was there

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:48

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

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so she’s 15 and never had any plans that clash with going to her dad’s?

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:48

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:16

. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie.

if we were talking about a 5 year old, i could see your point

but we’re talking about a 15 year old!!

Did she not message or call you whilst she was stuck all week there alone doing nothing?

When we first split, her father refused her access to her phone when she was with him, and I was not allowed to make contact. I suppose we’ve just got used to very little contact in those weeks. The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

OP posts:

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:15

so she’s never expressed reluctance to go? Or had plans that means she’s said to you “do i have to go mum?”

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

OP posts:

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:16

. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie.

if we were talking about a 5 year old, i could see your point

but we’re talking about a 15 year old!!

Did she not message or call you whilst she was stuck all week there alone doing nothing?

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:15

so she’s never expressed reluctance to go? Or had plans that means she’s said to you “do i have to go mum?”

Original poster

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 14:52

Thanks for the input. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie. If she raised the subject herself, ie worded it as “do I have to go”, I’d 100% tell her that she could stay here.
As it is, if I suggest that she stay there a little later/ go for longer than stated in CAO she says no, so I’ve pretty much given up on that.

OP posts:

Runnerduck34 · 07/04/2024 14:25

Codlingmoths · 07/04/2024 12:21

Nah. You tell her if he is just working and she’d rather be home she can come home/you’ll pick her up that evening (assuming you’re working), then message him and say dd isn’t interested in hanging around at yours while you work, so if that happens again she will just pack up and head home/let me know and I’ll collect her after work. It’s her choice at her age and she isn’t silly, she knows you could have booked leave given the tiny amount of time she is there.

Agree with this.
He should have booked annual leave and arranged to spend time with her , days out, activities etc particularly as the location leaves her isolated from her friends .
I think at 15 she can definitely decide where and who she spends the holidays with- no point her being there if he's at work all the time and she's alone.

Concannon88 · 07/04/2024 13:43

@ shes 15? Just let her decide if she wants to go there at all

BibbleandSqwauk · 07/04/2024 13:35

It's not parental alienation at all. My ds is a touch younger but makes a lot of noise occasionally about not wanting to go and having a somewhat ambivalent relationship with his dad. I have said to him that whilst in the end he can't be forced, most teens go through phases of not liking a parent much but in together families they don't really have a choice but to see them and once they grow through it, the relationship is intact. In divorced families, if they exercise their choice not to go it can sever the relationship completely which they may regret when older. Maybe look at shorter visits or more flexibility but also, in as neutral a way as possible, raise it with the ex. You might get a negative response but if you frame it as simply passing on your dd's words you aren't telling him what to do.

canyouletthedogoutplease · 07/04/2024 13:34

She's fifteen, nothing is going to set on fire if you tell her that she has a choice, and she should have a choice. If she doesn't want to sit in a bedroom for a week, then why would you encourage that on his behalf instead of advocating for her? He's lucky that she didn't get herself on a bus out of there.

No it's not a good idea to badmouth her father, but yes, you can give her the truth and tell her that she's well past the age where a court would take her wishes and feelings into account when making an order.

Cherrysoup · 07/04/2024 13:26

Please tell her what pp have said. I can’t imagine any 15 year old I know (bar some of the obsessed with Fortnite boys) being happy stuck in a house alone for a week.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 07/04/2024 13:23

It's so sad to see the disappointment or anger in your DC when they realise that they are not the other parents priority 😢. I feel for you and your DD. I agree with the others that at 15 if she doesn't want to go, then I wouldn't force it, but can understand how that would make you sad.