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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think he should have booked annual leave

111 replies

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 11:24

Quick overview - ex went to court for a court order in regards to seeing our youngest. Judge wanted to know why he’d bothered, as he asked for less than he was currently being offered, but whatever. Long story short, according to the order, school holidays should be split 50/50 (in addition to some weekends in term time). Ex doesn’t really abide by this, and this year DD (now15) will spend just three weeks (out of the fourteen weeks school holidays) with him and his new partner, this last week was one of the three. She returned last night, and has just mentioned that she spent the whole week bored in her room, on her own, as her DF didn’t book any annual leave, and she can’t meet up with friends while she is staying there due to logistics, transport and distance. AIBU to think that if he’s going to insist she goes for a week, that he should at least book annual leave? I really want her to have a good relationship with him, but it feels as if he thwarts it at every turn. She seems less and less bothered about going at all, but I don’t want to be the one to say categorically that at her age she now has a choice, as I worry it could be classed as “parental alienation” - I’ve always just been quite matter of fact about following the court order as if it’s a “given” rather than a discussion.
(and yes, I know I can’t FORCE him to do anything, such as spend more time with our DD)

OP posts:
PutOnYourRedShoesAndLetsDance · 07/04/2024 19:35

Let her decide.. my daughter decided at same age..she didn't want to go anymore.. it was only every Sunday.. he sat and read the paper.. she sat and watched TV.. at 15 ..it's not like Dad can take them to soft play or the park.. they want to hang around with their friends etc

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:32

beetr00 · 07/04/2024 19:28

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates not unreasonable to have hoped he'd have arranged some time for them together but if she'll be 16 by end of year she'll be able to choose her terms for contact then as you're probably aware?

How long is a Child Arrangements Order in force for?
The contact arrangements set out in a Child Arrangements Order remain legally binding until the child reaches the age of 16 unless the order specifically states otherwise. This is in accordance with section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989. After this point it will be up to the child to decide how much contact they would like to have with the parent they do not live with

Thank you. I know I’ve said it a few times, I’ve never wanted to be the one to instigate the idea that she can cut back on contact. If she suggested it herself, I’d 100% support her decision. There’s quite a long backstory, but whatever has happened has always been “my fault”, he was very good at gaslighting me and now he does it to my children, so can’t afford to put a step wrong.

OP posts:
beetr00 · 07/04/2024 19:28

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates not unreasonable to have hoped he'd have arranged some time for them together but if she'll be 16 by end of year she'll be able to choose her terms for contact then as you're probably aware?

How long is a Child Arrangements Order in force for?
The contact arrangements set out in a Child Arrangements Order remain legally binding until the child reaches the age of 16 unless the order specifically states otherwise. This is in accordance with section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989. After this point it will be up to the child to decide how much contact they would like to have with the parent they do not live with

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:09

BoohooWoohoo · 07/04/2024 18:54

You say that she had no plans with friends- does that mean she would have been bored at home too? Don’t most 15/16 year olds call an ordinary day boring because they are a very dramatic age? In my kids cases, seeing their friends is how they made their day “not boring”. Did she take some school books or hobby bits like reading books to pass the time ?

Most 15 year olds don’t have their parents or family home looking after them during the school holidays so I think it’s fine that dad went to work some days. yanbu to think that he should have made some time for her.

It’s not parental alienation to let her know that she has a choice. Tbh it sounds like she could opt for shorter periods with dad because they haven’t fallen out as such and make it clear that she expects some attention and time with him.

If she had been at home, she would have been able to meet up,with friends, but from his she would be reliant on a lift/ taxi, as he lives several miles away. Here, we have a good bus service and trains, not to mention that her friends live within walking distance.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 07/04/2024 19:07

I do agree it's beyond a joke that he only has his daughter 3 weeks per year and he can't prioritise spending time with her for those 3 weeks by at least taking most of it off as annual leave when he gets 7 weeks per year, it's less than half!

BoohooWoohoo · 07/04/2024 18:54

You say that she had no plans with friends- does that mean she would have been bored at home too? Don’t most 15/16 year olds call an ordinary day boring because they are a very dramatic age? In my kids cases, seeing their friends is how they made their day “not boring”. Did she take some school books or hobby bits like reading books to pass the time ?

Most 15 year olds don’t have their parents or family home looking after them during the school holidays so I think it’s fine that dad went to work some days. yanbu to think that he should have made some time for her.

It’s not parental alienation to let her know that she has a choice. Tbh it sounds like she could opt for shorter periods with dad because they haven’t fallen out as such and make it clear that she expects some attention and time with him.

zeibesaffron · 07/04/2024 18:46

I agree with you OP he could have taken time off to spend with your DD - he has really missed out!! What an idiot man, I bet she was bored to tears!! At least at yours she could have met her mates etc!!!

I think you are perfectly reasonable to think he could have spent a few days chilling with his DD - I do think though you need to ask your DD if she really wants to go in future as it sounds tedious for her!

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 18:40

GingersOwner26 · 07/04/2024 18:35

That, or would it have been possible for him to book a different week when others could cover, and then she visit him that week instead? How set in stone are the visit dates, could it have been moved if this was the issue?

The dates are set in stone, in so far as we both can make plans years in advance. But equally, I have never refused if he’s asked to swap the dates. The only reason I would do so, would be if we had actually booked to go on holiday, or something like that. I’m just sad that he wouldn’t make that effort. I KNOW that she’s old enough to entertain herself, although it’s more difficult from his house, than from ours, as I’ve explained elsewhere, but that’s not the question here.

OP posts:
GingersOwner26 · 07/04/2024 18:35

LlynTegid · 07/04/2024 12:24

Not even a day or two is unreasonable. If he was refused leave because others had asked first, then this could have been made clear from the outside so your DD could have said no to going.

That, or would it have been possible for him to book a different week when others could cover, and then she visit him that week instead? How set in stone are the visit dates, could it have been moved if this was the issue?

BirthdayRainbow · 07/04/2024 18:24

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

The rolling of her eyes was your cue to ask her how she feels about going!

BirthdayRainbow · 07/04/2024 18:22

Time with the non living with you parent should be for the child's benefit. There's no benefit for her so I'd tell her it is up to her what she does. That's not alienation.

Winnading · 07/04/2024 18:20

Theunamedcat · 07/04/2024 16:17

Honestly does no-one think that she has been told there is a court order that "must"be complied with? If my children are told that there is an official bit of paper saying you must do this or else they do it my son dragged himself into school feeling sick as a dog because he didn't want to get me into trouble I caught the same bug it nearly fucking floored me

Basically
Some children don't moan if they are told they have no choice it doesn't make them happy about the situation

Yeah I think the same.

At one point I would've thought the court order was the overarching plan and I could do nothing about it as it was court ordered. So I would suck it up, and be unhappy and bored.

OP just tell her at 15 she can make choices. Even if your ex thinks now after all these years its parental alienation itll take ages to get to court where crucially your child will get to say how she feels.

Mylovelygreendress · 07/04/2024 18:20

It never fails to amaze me the number of parents ( usually mothers) who are desperate for their DC to maintain a relationship with their fathers and/ or grandparents when there is very little interest shown by the fathers and grandparents!
My exh made it clear he would see our DC only if it suited him ( and it rarely did) so I simply stopped sending them . He never took me to court .
My DC are now adults and have virtually no contact with their father.

WhistPie · 07/04/2024 18:16

She's 15 ffs. A few years ago she could have got married at 16! Neither you nor her father need to take time off work to sort out childcare for her any more, though if you want to spend time with her then great. Tell her the score, and let her make her own mind up.

It seems that neither you nor she have moved on from her being 8

MumblesParty · 07/04/2024 18:14

Your ex should have taken some annual leave, definitely.

All the people saying that OP’s DD would have asked to come home if she was genuinely bored, or that she’d have said she didn’t want to go in the first place etc….were you a child of divorced parents? Taking the step of saying you don’t want to visit the absent parent is massive.

For as long as I could remember I saw my Dad every other weekend. At times it was boring, and as I got older I had plenty of other things I’d have liked to do. But it literally never occurred to me to say I didn’t want to go. Weekends with my Dad was such an established part of my life - like going to school, cleaning my teeth, having a bath, eating vegetables - it would never have entered my head to say “you know what, I don’t want to do this any more”. It was just accepted.

So OP’s DD may be bored out of her mind at her Dad’s, but it would still be a huge step to say she doesn’t want to go any more.

Delphiniumandlupins · 07/04/2024 18:10

I think you should talk to your DD about her time with her dad (and you). Explain that, at her age, courts take her wishes into account. There is no real problem with her being 'bored' sometimes but she could talk to her dad about some things she would like to do when she is with him - some 15 year olds don't have many shared interests with their parents. Did they go out for any meals when she was there? Spend their evenings together? She can ask him if he can take some time off work when she's there.

Elebag · 07/04/2024 18:09

She should stop seeing him and enjoy time with her friends and at home. He hasn't made her his priority.

Illpickthatup · 07/04/2024 18:08

She old enough to decide whether she wants to go or not. Also it's not your responsibility to ensure she has a good relationship with him. That's down to him and it seems like he isn't really making much of an effort to do that so why should you?

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 18:06

Also if she hadn't been at her dad's but at home she may well have been able to make plans to do something.

exactly. which is why it’s odd she seems not to have had any communication with her mother whilst she was there about being bored

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 18:05

sparkellie · 07/04/2024 18:01

Possibly true. But if you are only going to spend 3 wks holiday a year with your kid then I don't think it's unreasonable for the expectation to be that you to actually spend those weeks with them. Yes, maybe if she had stayed at home op would have been working and she would have been equally bored, but I doubt op uses less than 3 wks holiday on her dd! Also if she hadn't been at her dad's but at home she may well have been able to make plans to do something.

Edited

i agree but those of us with 15/16 year olds…. don’t read too much in to “i’m bored”. She hasn’t any plans with friends so wasn’t missing out on anything

sounds like it’s more regular than that…. weekends too

sparkellie · 07/04/2024 18:01

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 17:39

she chilled, revised, went on her phone too much, came home, said she was “bored”. She had no plans that week so no doubt would have been a bit bored wherever she was

Possibly true. But if you are only going to spend 3 wks holiday a year with your kid then I don't think it's unreasonable for the expectation to be that you to actually spend those weeks with them. Yes, maybe if she had stayed at home op would have been working and she would have been equally bored, but I doubt op uses less than 3 wks holiday on her dd! Also if she hadn't been at her dad's but at home she may well have been able to make plans to do something.

MadeForThis · 07/04/2024 17:47

I would find a way to let her know that she has the option not to go. If you don't want to tell her directly could you make sure she overhears you having a conversation about it.

You can't be blamed for alienating her, she won't think that you are encouraging her not to go, but she will be aware that she can choose.

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 17:39

she chilled, revised, went on her phone too much, came home, said she was “bored”. She had no plans that week so no doubt would have been a bit bored wherever she was

Theeyeballsinthesky · 07/04/2024 17:34

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 17:24

she’s 15 and had no plans and presumably a load of revision and came back and said she was “bored”

like many a 15 year old!

and op hasn’t mentioned whether she was truly alone or had half siblings around

OP previous post has said there are no half siblings

No half siblings - one step brother who is in the army and not around

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 17:24

sparkellie · 07/04/2024 17:17

I think she was there a week. The 3 weeks is the total amount of holiday the dad is having her for over the year.

she’s 15 and had no plans and presumably a load of revision and came back and said she was “bored”

like many a 15 year old!

and op hasn’t mentioned whether she was truly alone or had half siblings around

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