To think the NHS makes it difficult to avoid A&E

Our surgery has recently changed their system - every “on-the-day” appointment request gets triaged by a GP when you call. This has solved the 8am scramble as you’ll also be seen (well, usually get a phone call first…) if it’s deemed urgent and you call at say 10am.
I haven’t seen the GP in years but it has worked well for my DH and I have heard other positive voices.
Non-urgent appointments still take ages.
There is obviously still the issue of phone consultations as a default, I am convinced my late DMIL would still be alive had she been seen by a GP the day she called.

Where are you getting your 1.4 million figure from @Sunflowergirl1 ?

Net migration for year ending June 2023 was 672k.

Economic immigrants will be using the health service less anyway as they are typically younger and healthier than our aging population. That's what's causing the biggest strain on our health service.

But that isn't how it works here, @KnittedCardi

I don't think there is anything wrong with reviewing how we fund the NHS and making changes if necessary, but we should not feel guilty for using the service as it has been promised to us under the funding model that is currently in place.

Telling people to go private if they can afford it, so that the government can pretend things are working is just setting up a two tier system by stealth.

We don't get the NHS for free, we are all paying for it through our taxes and National Insurance! That's the social contract we have made, so neither should we feel guilty for wanting to use something we have already paid for!

But this is an issue of unreasonable expectations. Other countries have similar tax systems, providing basic universal care, but also additional private co payments, which most people or their companies pay for. So more money is going into the system overall, and you get a better system!

This. Completely.

We don't get the NHS for free, we are all paying for it through our taxes and National Insurance! That's the social contract we have made, so neither should we feel guilty for wanting to use something we have already paid for!

It depends where you live, I live rurally in the West Country, very good efficient hospital, never over busy.

GP, often same day, next day worse case and often the offer of a house call if he's on his rounds.

The other week rang at 10.30, Dr dropped by at 3.30 - sadly its a postcode lottery.

I get the brunt of it at work with patients complaining they couldn’t get referred to is unless they had X episodes except that’s the gp’s not wanting to pay the referral fee and not a policy we’ve set up.

So I tell them how to self refer in future.

More services allow self referral now so it’s worth googling.

Tonsilitis needs 10 days antibiotics or you can get rheumatic fever off it which damages the heart and pharmacy are limited to 5 days antibiotics for sore throats so you do the maths.

We need more GPs, on that we all agree. Doctors want to be GPs, 11,000 applied to be one this year alone. But government won't fund them. It's our taxes. We want doctors to look after us. But those in charge don't care, they just want to make more money.

Whoever said they're moving abroad for a better life, well so are our young doctors. Because they are treated and talked about like they are pieces of shit in this country, who should be happy to live on claps and thanks. With £100,000+ of student debt.

I'm getting older. I'd like to see a doctors in 5 years, not some PA. But unless something changes this is what will be there for anyone not rich enough to go private.

The more I read on here, the more I appreciate how incredibly lucky we seem to be.
Our surgery go all out. Grandchild hasn’t needed many appointments, thank goodness, but has always been seen same day, as is my husband who has complicated health problems.

@SENlife salaried GPs can not earn the amounts you say, only GP partners can.

The op is literally saying she’s trying to book a gp appointment.

I think it differs hugely from area to area- my GP is fantastic always get an
appointment when I need it and usually on the same day. Whereas my friend who lived 30 mins away had no option other than to go to A and E for antibiotics for a
Chest infection. She was trying 3 weeks to get an appointment with her GP with no success and the Urgent care centre near her had closed down. She has no option and the nurse at A and E told her to
Complain to the GP surgery and she was really poorly. She couldn't believe it when I told her I get an appointment usually on the same day!

@SENlife no, your surgery is open 9-6. The doctors will then have to make referrals, follow up on referrals, look at tests results etc. Some will start at 7am and leave at 9pm and still not get all the work done. Appointments are just one part of a v complicated job.

Funnily enough, DH and some friends were talking about this yesterday. One of our friends has an obvious issue with an infection in their finger. They've been trying to get a GP appointment for a week now. Keep ringing at 8am, keep being told nothing left. Tried 111 who just said present at minor injuries. Our local area has no minor injuries. He was told to present at A+E but feels ridiculous to do this and there is at least a 7+ hour wait.

I've been trying to organise prescriptions since changing GP in December as we moved. We originally signed up for this new GP in October, they refused to add us all as they wanted work proof and bill proof from our 15 year old DS. Kept explaining he is 15, the moron on the desk said "I know but we need this". She wasn't listening. Finally after months and having to get school.l to email them, we got in.

Since then I've been told we can't get medications prescribed without a med review. Except I've called repeatedly since December to be told no appointments and it's not an emergency. DS has incredibly important medications which I've not been able to get. Luckily his consultant is sending a strongly worded email. I've explained these are medications prescribed by a specialist to be told their prescription nurse "will judge if they're necessary".

It's a joke, it's GPs at the centre of it or their useless and gate keeping desk dragons

Hahahahahaha social care doesn’t cause the delays in hospital ! ( well it doesn’t where I live !)

lack of Gp appointments = people going to A&E who don’t need too = ambulances backed up = test take too long = patients not being discharged because the pharmacy is backed up or their is no doctor to sign it ( despite community care being in place to start ) there is no transport etc etc.

All the discharge money and winter money and funding for discharge is given to the NHS ( who can then decide if they share it with social care partners!) the NHS are measured by ‘bed days saved’ they give zero shits as to what happens next, people are sent home ‘medically optimised’ rather then ‘medically fit’ now. The NHS is a disaster because they waste money left right and centre. The majority of the time, social care pick up the pieces.

I have had 3 appointments all on same day over the last six months at my GP and received medication each time, on one visit they said if no improvement I would need to go in to hospital within 24 hours. Hadn’t needed meds for almost a decade. I am however not in the SE which seems to be bearing the brunt, that’s a numbers game isn’t it with the density of population.

My surgery has a poster with how many appointments are missed each month, it was close to 300 when I went a couple of weeks ago. I’m sure maybe 10% had a genuine emergency but what should happen there?

Agree wholeheartedly

Seriously? our practices they work 9-6 so definitely not some miracle 50 hours. Even our local hospital the consultants are working part time and making up the rest of the week in the local private hospital where they can charge significantly more.

Nope - AE & indeed the rest of the NHS, is destroyed because patients cannot be admitted to the ward, corridors have been made wards, patients don't get seen in a timely manner, people are released back into the community who should still be in hospital, so they get re-admitted or die.

Sort out social care, which is basically a matter of funding/wages and the Hospital system would then cope far better, fund council services properly and less people would need to be dealt with by GP surgeries, which are picking up the pieces from 14 years of Austerity.

So it is possible and its not deluded to think it can be done, it would also in the medium to longer term, save money.

For 2 years through covid id tried to get a GP appointment, got one as we came out of lockdown but i had another issue by then, so 2 ailments, would only discuss one, got so fed up for over 6 months being told call back tomorrow at 8am nothing available, that i contacted local MP.
Eventually changed GP surgery, Oh what heaven, i can call on a Monday and be seen same week, i can now pre book appointments.
Lovely GP doctor, on first visit said Oh we dont see you much, no sh** sherlock you cant get in anywhere else!

Definitely not the owners the practices now have to legally declare the GP earnings.

@SENlife oh and what to you is a 'full working week' ? Most GPs I've spoken to will work 40-50 hours in those 3 days. Doing it full time is unsustainable.

@SENlife because the government will not give money for Doctors. PAs yes. But they don't let surgeries employ GPs (2.7% rise in income this year). It's nuts. But hey, then you'll go private and line their grubby little hands.

Yes £100,000+ for part time is wrong. But that only applies to owners of the surgery not the majority of GPs who are salaried.

In my area not a single GP works a full working week, but the average local GP salary is 80,000 - 100,000 most working 3 days or less. These are the figures posted by the surgeries of what they spent on salary. It's disgusting. We had 1 GP that worked 6 days a week 7-7 until he finally retired and now it's back to rarely being seen or being sent to the hospital.