To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

It’s nothing to do with racism or getting black people to attend the theatre; it’s about publicity.
Say something mildly controversial; you get free advertising in the newspapers and people who have never heard of this play will buy tickets.
Surely it’s one of the oldest tricks in the book?

It is truly remarkable how many racists have black friends and family members.

I think many of you would greatly benefit from reading this essay by Africa Brooke:

www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-im-leaving-the-cult-of-wokeness/

“What I’m truly afraid of is existing in a world that forces me to submit to an ideology without question, otherwise I’m to be shamed (or pressured to shame myself) and cast out of the community.
A world that tells me that because I inhabit a black body; I will forever be oppressed and at the mercy of some omnipresent monster called “whiteness.” That because of the color of my skin; I am a victim of an inherently racist system by default – and me rejecting the narrative of oppression means that I am in fact, in denial. How empowering!

As someone who comes from Zimbabwe, a country where the general population is truly oppressed, it perplexes me that oppression is now being worn as an identity piece in most parts of the West, especially by those who claim to be “progressive.”

What I’m truly afraid of is existing in a world that forces me to consider the color of my skin and my gender (and that of others) at every f*ing turn, instead of living by Martin Luther King’s teachings and prioritizing the content of mine and other people’s character.

I dread the prospect of a world where context, nuance, critical thinking, meritocracy, mathematics, science, and rationality are considered tools of “white supremacy,” and the rule is that you’re not allowed to question or argue this senseless statement – especially if you’re white. A world that is conditioning you and I to believe that we will always be trapped in some weird hierarchy because of our race, our genitals, our physical abilities, our neurodiversity, our sexuality, and our politics.

And that if we do not agree on every single thing, it’s a sign that we are interacting with an enemy – or at the very least, someone to be wildly suspicious and judgmental of…instead of another complex human being worthy of being seen and heard. I wish this world I’m speaking of was just a figment of my imagination, but we are already inside it. Our suitcases have been unpacked here for quite some time.

This absolutist, authoritarian world is being fiercely crafted under the guise of “social justice,” and I want no parts in this. I AM OUT.”

Jeez this comment has to win!

I know a lady who was beaten up by her husband, whilst it was sad at the time, she actually is now an award winning body builder and can recognise that taking those hits made her stronger. She hates when women go on about misogyny and male violence because sometimes, history shapes our destiny.

There is lots of research around generational trauma and child development, it’s interesting you should really look it up. As with all research, it’s open to questions though.

If you think that wealthy black people in the UK do not experience discrimination, I can only assume you don’t know a lot of wealthy black people. Or that, they don’t feel able to talk openly with you about this.

Just because you personally haven’t experienced something, it doesn’t make it not true.

You seem very interested in your own personal experiences with an inability to consider things from another person’s perspective, which may be very different to yours?

As I asked earlier, do you think that a Jewish person who has or would like to attend a Jewish led event about Jewish history, is wrong to do so and if so why?

Discussion is one thing, but the blatant minimising and dismissing of some people’s black experiences is exactly, such an event is necessary in the UK in 2024!

No.

This.

I once visited one of the "places of no return" in West Africa, where the slaves would leave Africa for the last time on ships headed for the US plantations. Horrendous, evil place. DH and I are white and happened to be there at the same time as a black family, who were all visibly distressed, one woman crying uncontrollably. We could sense that our presence there was making their experience all the more uncomfortable, so we left quickly. For us, it was a place of historical interest and to get a sense of the evil nature of humanity and actions we hope are never repeated. For them, it appeared to be traumatic family history and was deeply personal. We understood that as white people with no shared history in these horrors, we had no place in trying to take that moment from them.

It's no different for SOME black people with this play. Obviously there will be plenty of black people who won't feel that way, and they can go to the usual shows that are for everyone. But for anyone who would find this scheme helpful, why would white people, who still benefit from the history of slavery to this day (it's ignorant in the extreme to claim this isn't true), why on earth would you begrudge those people this small gesture?

Well said

Where has the poster said they didn't? What's with the whataboutery?

Why don't you care about white slavery?

So much of this thread has been a shining example of white fragility but it’s Black Out nights that are divisive and setting things back?
Phew, chile.

If white people could spend at least 50% of their energy battling racism than they have trying to bend backwards telling black people this theatre experience for them is racism (it’s not) divisive, talking about white slavery, the Rwanda policy, poor people…. Gosh. Just imagine!

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

I also watched Roots as a child with my white Jewish family.

There was no laughter and I strongly identified with the lead character (Kunta Kinte I think) and was horrified by what happened to him.

It was a powerful drama that I was given special dispensation to stay up for and allowed me to truly understand the full horror of slavery (I think I was about 13).

That is why drama should be a shared experience and bring people together.

(I am sorry for what happened to you at school though. Schools are horrid tribal environments and teachers need to control that kind of thing, never would have happened under my watch).

Erm, it's not the "weird luvvies" that are coming across as "barking mad."

Agree with this

‘If black performers and/or theatre-goers feel that it's important to have Black Out nights in a play about slavery, then I don't think it's my place as a white person to question that.’

I am afraid I would disagree, I find this idea very divisive. In a democratic society everyone should be allowed to question what they want. It is the old rationalism vs empiricism debate.

’Lived experience’ doesn’t trump research and data, although both the former may also include asking people about their lived experience. Are we going to only talk to women about abortion, men about prostate cancer etc. If you think that is good, how about just allowing Jews to discuss religious circumcism? Bit harder now?

We live in a democratic multicultural society where every decision influences and has an effect on others’ rights. We seem to be in a somewhat retrograde phase where we believe atomisation is integration, very Orwellian.

Not remotely comparable to segregation.
Segregation was forced by white people so we didn't "mix", black people wanting to watch a film about slavery by themselves is people who want to watch it with people who share the same experiences as them.
Your argument is the same as men going "you've got equality, you're allowed out of the house more now, we let you into pubs etc, I'm not responsible for sexism/ oppression... !

This.

Still waiting for your answer…. It’s not difficult

@valensiwalensi what are you trying to achieve by pushing for an answer to such a ridiculous question?

Personally, I don’t think allowing or denying people access to anything based solely on their race is a good idea. I’m also not a fan of positive discrimination.

However, I am white and recognise that my views on this are neither that important or that strong so I’m not going to get worked up about it at all.

So you can’t answer the question.

@valensiwalensi I'd rather be myself (not white British) and that's the message we should be sending to every child and young person in the world. Your question is simplistic and unhelpful.

Perhaps this is why several white middle class people have been found out trying to ‘pass’ as black or otherwise non-white (Rachel Dolezal) but never the opposite?

Or could this be that in their eyes not being white was somehow beneficial?