To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

And also language and the ability to speak and write the English word. To my mind this is a massive factor in privilege and social mobility. In a lot of cases white privilege of you assume it exists is conflated with the ability to speak English well with a relatively soft accent. In my experience a lot of prejudice (and by extension white privlege) is due to miscommunication or difficulty to converse fluently. It just seems that when you see successful poc they are often have eloquent speech and I wonder if speech is yet another privilege that should override skin tone?

Sorry about the typos

@Lion400

we are not the US. I think the US has very much a separate racial and social history is and we shouldn't find to much equivalence. I think a lot of white privilege is in reality about a certain section of white people atoning for the sins of generations past when colonisation (and slavery) occured. It is collective white supposed guilt.

I think if we were to take the southern states of the US there possibly is racism prevalent simply due to the history of the US. By all means concentrate on the problems in this states in terms of racism and discrimination but don't start extrapolating to produce some ill defined white privilege that sits with anyone with a 'white' skintone. How does that help?

the theory of skin privilege is tested by taking an example of a Hispanic living in the US . The Hispanic would suffer in some regard due to the the white privilege in the US but if he were to emigrate to Spain then obviously no white privilege given the demographics of Spain but there may a 'Spanish privelge' in that settled Spaniards would have advantage due to the fact their families have lived in the countries for generations.

I think social problems and prejudice are far to nuanced to be packaged into a simple (and possibly offensive) moniker of 'white privilege' which only serves to antagonize white people.with its simple ethnic description and mention of privilege.

The theory also is sorely tested by mixed race people where we have to append a binary theory of having or not having a certain type of privilege to a spectrum of skin tone and ethnic diversity. How do you do that?

I also think that part of the 'white ' privilege mentioned in reality takes into account having a possibly anglicised name, middle class education, being part of our social establishment and not being overly fixated with race. I am not conservative but you Kemi Badenoch as being some sort of antithesis to white privilege theory who has gained prominence through her opposition of this and other aligned social views. I feel this that advocate white privilege are possibly resentful of successful black people as they have somehow sold out to UK establishment culture by making their way is a system they wish to portray as systemically racist. In order to square the circle of systemic racism and successful people of colour then proponents of white privilege need to label those people of having some white characteristic (in the abstract sense) that allows them to overcome this all prevailing white privilege.

Once last thing in the arts musicians are actively trying to promote their non whiteness of possible or actively be ally of musicians of colour. I think this is part of the arts culture where theories such as white privilege are more easily accepted and a sense that white musicians' success may be diminished by people saying it is a fruit of white privlege. Taylor Swift is coming in for some really slurs about being 'a white supremacists dream' in some quarters of American society for example. Dua Lipa would probably not want to mention ethnicity overly much in an interview (fair enough) but if pressed maybe accentuate her non British heritage to distance herself from the white music estbalishment.

So true.

Things like Critical Race Theory (CRT) feeds that thinking and actively teaches children segregation. It’s horrendous. Some American schools have been ambushed by it. A few U.K. too but hopefully not many.

@Newbutoldfather

I thoroughfare right and the arts has had an over representation of certain ethnicities at times so I don't think we can single the arts out as being racist at all. I also think the r should be caution amongst a new generation of ethnic minorities developing a victim culture where instead about being positive about opportunities they have a sense that the whole world is against them so why bother. I think this breeds resentment and some people may not reach their potential. I think also principle get some who when faced with the myriad challenges and unfairness of life may automatically go to race as the route of their problems. The concept of white privilege feeds into this.

Well, what do you think would happen if there was a "white only play"?

Why not talk us through what you think would be the similarities and differences between a "white only play" and the Black Out nights that are being proposed here.

Looking forward to your analysis.

well first there would have to be a black only play.

which there isn’t.

do keep up.

I think the equity concept is quite clever, but needs context, and is not a trump card.

We have to remember the goal of a genuinely fair and equal society is to give everyone a fair crack of the whip at achieving their potential, it isn’t to try to give one group a greater chance because they have had a lesser chance historically. Some may think it is, but I just believe this perpetuates resentments between people.

I do believe that people need role models, so when you are coming out of an era of overt discrimination (SA after apartheid or the U.S after overt racism) then I think positive discrimination is a good thing. But it has to be time limited and area specific. So a lower requirement for female or black engineers might be a good thing until there are sufficient role models for young girls or black people to believe they can be great engineers (how many is sufficient is obviously subjective).

The people who most dislike positive discrimination are often the truly talented minority people who believe others think they are there as tokens and not due to ability and hard work.

Relating the above to this specific case, the arts are one of the most inclusive areas of life in the uk and have been for decades. There is no need for positive discrimination. Yes, the subject of the play concerns blacks and past trauma, but most serious plays concern trauma of one sort or another.

Should we sexually divide audiences of Oleanna ?

Reverse racism. vm.tiktok.com/ZGeuL3NNg/

@Daisybuttercup12345

turnaround be using your white privilege p resumably?

What would happen if there was a white only play?

Exactly this and a marketing ploy also.

Skin tone

@StormingNorman

I think I can recognise white people throughs of skin rone. What other measure is there of defining white?

yes I am over complicating this because any publication in white privilege comes with plenty on caveats on the subject including it being country specific, culture specific, not the only privilege, overriding privileges etc. Mixed race people people can be pigeon holed by this concept as their skin tone obviously can take a spectrum of skin hues and there is no one level of arbitrary 'whiteness' to determine in reality whether the person will possess this nebulous privilege.

I think it is better to concentrate on racism than produce some ill defined privilege that white people (again ill defined) are meant to carry. White means a certain kind of white in my opinion in the UK; it means being of white heritage spreading back a few generations, being non slavic, having an anglicised name, not being of mixed race. White is a simple moniker attached to a group of people some think are 'enjoying' the fruits of colonisation some centuries later.

Any research that looks at white people would have to determine what white means a priori and that means you can have a significant level of bias and in effect you are setting up your own problem. You do not look at relative advantages and disadvantages of white people in themselves for instance. You have to consider the disadvantages Eastern European whites have in this country; in fact non immigrant privilege may be the real privilege of you wish to use the term is what you need to consider.

Racism is accepted as a societal problem as everyone knows what it is and can see steps to get and prevent ir. There are a large number of white people who do not accept the concept and the wording of white privilege can be his construed reality by. Struggling whites.

Also with privilege it can be viewed as a concept as something that is desirable to be kbtained. We wish to be wish for the privilege for example. We then have the question is white privilege something to be obtained or to be desired?

White privilege exists despite you seemingly not being able to recognise a white person when you see one.

You are turning yourself inside out trying to overcomplicate this in an attempt to disprove the existence of white privilege.

Asking white people not to attend is not about white people. Not understanding that is an example of white privilege.

@PressureLikeATickTickTick
Again, my husband is black. So I'm not some racist. It's the truth

Lol, just because you married someone who is black doesn't mean you can't be racist 🙄😂

It’s the people with power within those tolerant cultures who should be apologetic. They are the ones with privilege. The rest of us have nothing to apologise for. Most white people in this country have ancestors who were equally oppressed.

Do you think you can’t be racist because you’ve married a black man?🤣 your comments are very telling but can’t say I’m surprised to hear that a black man has married someone with such views. Why you bringing up BLM for no reason at all?
Reverse racism doesn’t exist, try again

It is if you are getting hoards of racist comments thrown at you on social media. And I hope that people understand that toxic white gaze doesn't refer to all white people.

And I doubt black people would be taking any notice of you if you attend the blackout night. They will be too busy talking to their friends.

Yes, I know the meme that you're talking about. It illustrates the point perfectly.

I saw a meme that depicted this very well. Three people, one tall, one medium height and one short, are trying to look over a fence. In the first picture, all three are standing on one box each. The tall person is raised up well over the height of the fence, the medium heigh person can see over easily, but the short person still can’t see over. In the second picture, the tall person has no box to stand on, the medium height person has one, and the short person has two boxes - and now all three can see over the fence.

In a perfect world, these adjustments would not be necessary - but this is not a perfect world. I hope that society is changing, so that these inequalities are improving, but until the people who have been, and are, most affected by inequality tell me that things are better, I will continue to support them in getting the adjustments they need, to drive progress toward a more equal society.

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/no-need-to-plead-guilty/

Few people deliberately use white privilege to their advantage, I would probably say most people who benefit from white privilege don't know they benefit from it either, because they don't have to think about it.

It's just ingrained into our society.

I'm not really interested in being part of trying to create your hierarchy points system where we are supposed to rank who has it worse.

Having non white skin creates difficulties that those with white skin don't have, that's a fact.

Is it massively naive of me that my initial response on reading this was just “oh that’s nice”?
I’m not into theatre at all, but I am into classical music and I think that the perception there can be of classical music as being elitist and not for ‘people like us’ is a real shame. So (notwithstanding that a lack of support for music in schools is probably the main problem) I’d support any gimmick that made people try something that they might miss out on otherwise. Whether it’s music, theatre or a group specifically for Muslims to go hiking in the countryside, I think targeting one group doesn’t deprive others. I see the fact that it’s about slavery has touched a nerve, but honestly I don’t think it’s that big a deal.