To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

I got stuck at 'identify as black' is that a thing?

Maybe because for those 80+ performances 'white money' is, by people's own admission on here, what's keeping the play running - then suddenly it's not welcome?

Maybe because they want to attend as a family of mixed heritage - however their white mother is not welcome?

This IS segregation - and the complete opposite of what we should be doing in an 'inclusive' society.

Thanks for thinking about it.

I don't think it's the same for a historically oppressed group of people to request a dedicated space as it would be the other way round, no. Their experiences cannot possibly be comparable.

And yes, women need single sex spaces for reasons of privacy, dignity and safety. Men who don't want us to have those spaces might tell us that we're being silly, that NAMALT, that we need to be more inclusive etc. Men cannot possibly comprehend what it's like to be a woman in our society and they may not understand or accept the reasons that we give for why we want those spaces.

I have never experienced being a black person in our society, so I am not going to presume to speak for them as to why don't of them might want spaces that are for black people only. However, I don't think it's for me, as a white person, to determine that their reasons are not good enough or that they need to be more inclusive etc. I don't have their lived experience, so how could I possibly judge that they don't need such spaces or that others should be allowed in. It isn't for me to say.

I’m white. I don’t have a view. If that’s what audiences want then fill your boots.

However, there are some black commentators that are worried that this is a gentle step back to segregation. Might black people feel less able to go to “normal” showings? Might it become a norm of black showings to everything, promoted by white people who don’t want black people at their “showings”? Do we end up with black people having different schools and water fountains under the guise of making them feel more comfortable? I don’t know, I don’t end up marginalised by this so my opinion also doesn’t really matter.

I would’ve thought the issue with the theatre is class as much as (if not more than) race - accepting the two are intertwined. I get this is unique to this play that probably wants to actively attract a black audience and is coming up with a marketing ploy to do so, but cheaper tickets, plays in the regions and free tickets to low income schools would be a bigger equaliser for the theatre.

This. It's a simple attempt to drudge up more bums on seats.

This is a play about slavery. It is an incredibly difficult and emotive subject. If some black people feel that it is better for them to experience the play without white people present, then I absolutely respect that wish.

What of black Africans who have never had the experience of slavery? I know I'm quibbling but black and slave are not synonymous by a long way.

I came here to say the same, I've had this discussion a few times in the past. As a predominantly white population (82%) you can't hide from the fact that there will always be a lot more white faces than black and to be honest, when it comes to representation in the media/entertainment on a percentage of population level, black people are over represented and Asian ethnic groups are often under represented.

A high proportion of London theatre audiences will be tourists.

@PenguinLord Fair enough, but I still think it’s not a good idea to do this, it’s a dangerous precedent.

No. I’m not anyone’s saviour.

Some people on here are struggling to understand why there is a difference between a black out night and white out night.

That Line sounds worse than anything else because it forces people to confront that black and white people are treated differently. I wouldn’t want to be stopped by the police for the crime of ‘driving whilst black’.

But very few do because they find theatres uninclusive.

Your words. The truth is, you don't know what other people feel because, you know, you're you and they're them.

Which articles are these?

You can't complain about ignorance then show the same amount. 'no blacks, no Irish' ever heard of that? It's not a competition, both can exist. I find ignorance offensive full stop

I take your point and I’ve thought about why I don’t agree with it. Because I DO believe in some women only spaces.
The reason is that women require them for reasons of privacy, dignity and safety. Men are overwhelmingly more likely to be a perpetrator of sexual assault or violence than a woman. When a woman is changing or undergoing an intimate procedure (for example) and feels vulnerable it is an entirely reasonable biological impulse to prefer being around the same sex only.

Segregation based on race is a different thing. It’s racism. And that applies whichever race is requesting the segregation surely.

There are plays in Germany and Austria where the audience is called or asked to be of Jewish heritage as the plays look at Holocaust related (I.e very sensitive and historically emotional for those with historical backgrounds) themes. Equally there are plays called for Germans with relatives who were in the military to come and be in the audience (for them to see what their ancestors did and were faced with). So it is not unknown, and very respected.

HR2 Kultur the radio station talks about those plays.

This gets trotted out so often, and I think its really offensive.

Racism does exist against white people, the Irish for example

Sadly, there has always been a lot of racism on MN.

I'm absolutely certain that they do understand why asking for a white only night is not the same, but the question suits their agenda so they ask it anyway.

Oh dear

Say there's a play about domestic abuse and gaslighting, a very difficult one to watch because the male actor is brilliant (perhaps from experience as a child, hopefully not that he's actually abusive himself in his intimate relationships) at portraying the body language, the swings in sound from quiet to towering over the other actor and bellowing at the top of his voice. You're surrounded by blokes who are there to be seen as worthy or for entertainment.

You then exit the auditorium and hear loud men who were fiddling with their phones, eating crisps, constantly getting up through the performance to go to the toilet and making others get up to facilitate them talking about how she was provoking the male actor, how it's not really like that, that it's what it used to be like in Victorian times, but no respectable man would ever do that in reality now and it's women who are abusive. They're not moving out of your way, they're occupying all the space and drowning out the quiet distress of the female theatregoer who didn't think it would affect them that much, but seeing it on stage, the visceral reaction to the performance meant that she needed people around her to have an understanding of her distress that she's trying to hide because well, that's what you do, you hide the fear, the abuse, the threat. But she's surrounded, her personal space intruded on, by people who aren't her ex/her father behaving similarly in it not affecting them, that was then, it wouldn't really happen like that, it's not that bad, that was boring and too worthy, adding selfies to their Tinder profile so any woman swiping by will see that they're Good Guys (TM), completely oblivious. And if she mentions it somewhere on social media, maybe somewhere like Mumsnet that she'd have preferred an all female audience, she'll be inundated with NAMALT, Not My Nigel, Have you considered therapy, See a doctor, you're just a Misandrist, etc.

That's why.

It's always the way on these kinds of threads.

"What if it was the other way around" like some kind of gotcha, and it hasn't been 'that way around' for centuries anyway.

Then we have the "woman are fighting for safe spaces so why should black people automatically have anything" which gets trotted out too, tiresome.

Then people declaring racism isn't a thing anymore, white people are actually the ones becoming oppressed.... its all so predictable.

In your rush to be white saviour of the week, you are coming out with some stuff that actually sounds worse than anything else that's on here:
If you don’t understand white privilege ask yourself if you would like to be black

responses like this to me show a complete lack of understanding for the wider issues.

being White British brings with it a certain level of privilege. We may not feel it day to day but we don’t have the same barriers and challenges other groups do have.

I agree with the poster who said that it’s a marketing ploy and it’s also a dangerous precedent-exclude one group this time, then another group next time, etc.

Re. The racial composition of theatre audiences. I’ve just done a quick Google and 4.2% of the population in England identify as Black, compared with 82% identifying as White.

I live in a majority African-American area in the US so I’d expect far more diverse audiences, but not in the UK.