To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

Also important to note is that white people aren’t excluded from attending if they wait to!

Thanks for thinking about it.

I don't think it's the same for a historically oppressed group of people to request a dedicated space as it would be the other way round, no. Their experiences cannot possibly be comparable.

And yes, women need single sex spaces for reasons of privacy, dignity and safety. Men who don't want us to have those spaces might tell us that we're being silly, that NAMALT, that we need to be more inclusive etc. Men cannot possibly comprehend what it's like to be a woman in our society and they may not understand or accept the reasons that we give for why we want those spaces.

I have never experienced being a black person in our society, so I am not going to presume to speak for them as to why don't of them might want spaces that are for black people only. However, I don't think it's for me, as a white person, to determine that their reasons are not good enough or that they need to be more inclusive etc. I don't have their lived experience, so how could I possibly judge that they don't need such spaces or that others should be allowed in. It isn't for me to say.

Do you need to "get it"?

It may not be "necessary" but if some black people feel that they would benefit from the opportunity to watch this play in an audience that consists of black people only, is that not reason enough?

There are plenty of other performances at which everyone else will be welcome. As a white person, it doesn't harm me in the slightest to respect the fact that one or two performances might be aimed at black people only.

You have 80+ other performances of the play to see, why would you feel excluded if you are asked not to attend on one night out of 60?

A high proportion of Londoners can not afford the theatre, as a Londoner I cannot afford £500 for an evening out with my family of 4 and few of my friends regardless of race or ethnicity could either. The barrier is £££ for many in my experience.

I don't mind this.

Presumably its also about trying to get black and ethnic minority people into theatres and so to increase audiences that way.

What I most object to is the phrase ' black identifying.'

I don’t get it!! Why is it necessary?! Everyone should be welcome for every performance?!

And more sensible! 😄

A high proportion of London theatre audiences will be tourists.

I take your point and I’ve thought about why I don’t agree with it. Because I DO believe in some women only spaces.
The reason is that women require them for reasons of privacy, dignity and safety. Men are overwhelmingly more likely to be a perpetrator of sexual assault or violence than a woman. When a woman is changing or undergoing an intimate procedure (for example) and feels vulnerable it is an entirely reasonable biological impulse to prefer being around the same sex only.

Segregation based on race is a different thing. It’s racism. And that applies whichever race is requesting the segregation surely.

I find this interesting because surely the people who should be watching a play about male violence are the ones who can do something about male violence... Men.

Guess you weren't at the same performance, then, what with being significantly wealthier, better travelled and clearly more cultured than me.

You have quite a vivid imagination! I've been to loads of shows, here (all over the country), and abroad. Never have I experienced lots of loud conversations the way you mention. People are usually quiet, also don't stand around talking that's what the café is for. Also, as a survivor of sexual abuse (and bullying etc because of my sex) I don't project my experiences onto other random people.

Also, many people, men AND women have to go to the toilet a lot. They can't control it. Instead you see people needing to go making others 'facilitate' them. How ridiculous. And disablist actually,

FWIW I'm not against the idea of Black Out night. I have Black heritage myself, and it's empowering to see so many of us together watching something with sensitive subject matter. However, it's not something that makes a massive difference if they play's going to be the same. You go with your mates, watch the play, and come home. I don't think it's important to have and as PP said more of a marketing ploy.

You can't do anything about crowded spaces etc etc and in fact in most theatres there's no space for people to stand around chatting anyway. People with no spatial awareness IME are of both sexes. If someone doesn't want to go into the crowd then just stay in the seat until everyone else leaves.

People saying to consider therapy for someone who has your reaction are absolutely right. You pre-empting it doesn't mean that it's wrong.

So white people would be able to ask Black people not to attend a certain performance?

I guarantee if a night like that was advertised then every seat would be bought by a black person in protest. There would be BLM signs outside. Protesters etc...

It's ok to ban white people but not black people?

Again, my husband is black. So I'm not some racist. It's the truth.

If there was, for example, a play about a women's event, or say on sexual violence, I'd really appreciate an option to attend with a female only audience. I don't want to watch something about my oppression sat next to my oppressor. Can imagine it's the same.

Say there's a play about domestic abuse and gaslighting, a very difficult one to watch because the male actor is brilliant (perhaps from experience as a child, hopefully not that he's actually abusive himself in his intimate relationships) at portraying the body language, the swings in sound from quiet to towering over the other actor and bellowing at the top of his voice. You're surrounded by blokes who are there to be seen as worthy or for entertainment.

You then exit the auditorium and hear loud men who were fiddling with their phones, eating crisps, constantly getting up through the performance to go to the toilet and making others get up to facilitate them talking about how she was provoking the male actor, how it's not really like that, that it's what it used to be like in Victorian times, but no respectable man would ever do that in reality now and it's women who are abusive. They're not moving out of your way, they're occupying all the space and drowning out the quiet distress of the female theatregoer who didn't think it would affect them that much, but seeing it on stage, the visceral reaction to the performance meant that she needed people around her to have an understanding of her distress that she's trying to hide because well, that's what you do, you hide the fear, the abuse, the threat. But she's surrounded, her personal space intruded on, by people who aren't her ex/her father behaving similarly in it not affecting them, that was then, it wouldn't really happen like that, it's not that bad, that was boring and too worthy, adding selfies to their Tinder profile so any woman swiping by will see that they're Good Guys (TM), completely oblivious. And if she mentions it somewhere on social media, maybe somewhere like Mumsnet that she'd have preferred an all female audience, she'll be inundated with NAMALT, Not My Nigel, Have you considered therapy, See a doctor, you're just a Misandrist, etc.

That's why.