To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

Wow. Did you mean to sound so antisemitic?

What is gained about a black only night about a play about slavery? In 2024 we can watch a play about slavery and be appalled no matter whatever your ethnicity? The type of white person going to see a play about slavery is the type of person who is conscious of racism and wants to broaden their historical understanding if this period of history.

I understand wanting to understand events that shape us but is this akin to a Scots only version of the battles which Scotland lost so they were subsumed by the English, or a Catholic only version of eras if Catholic persecution in the UK?

I don't think it adds anything to have people of one ethnicity in a play about anything. I think we are in a position in society where can share all are historical experiences collectively.

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

I don’t lack knowledge, I disagree with you. Stop trying to weaponise the ‘racism’ word to drown out other opinions. My mother and her father (both white Jews) went on the torchlight parades in S.A pre-apartheid (do you know what they were?!).

Of course minorities can create segregated spaces. And this is an attempt at segregation, whites are clearly not welcome on these nights. That is a fact, not an opinion! As for ‘identifying as black’, WTF does that mean?!

I wonder how many black people support this (I suspect a vocal small minority) or would prefer to go on these nights rather than any other.

You wouldn't be refused entry anyway, so your stupid plan wouldn't work.

Black identifying also doesn't mean what you seem to think it does.

"all-black-identifying audiences"

Right.

So if men who identify as women as treated as women, I can say I identify as black and attend (I'm white). And then state discrimination if I'm refused entry.

Load of fucking nonsense.

My initial instinct is that it’s divisive, or at least the way it’s being deliberately marketed is. I think a message that’s particularly encouraging one group to attend is fine, but on this occasion they’re simultaneously asking another group not to attend (although they won’t actually bar them if they turn up). That’s the bit that sits somewhat awkwardly with me.

I’ve been reading all the views carefully here as I’m keen to properly understand the opposing view. I’m well aware that I may not be understanding all sides fully. There have been some really interesting comments, which have been helpful and quite enlightening in helping to see things a different way.

Also, what I struggle to understand is why slavery is considered to be a black issue when many white people were enslaved too? And why are people today so affected when it’s described as “ancestral” - and many people may not even know if their own ancestors were slaves?

And with all that in mind, why would a black audience need a space away from white people? Unless the suggestion is that white people today are still being held accountable for ancestral crimes? I can think of many examples where an exclusive space for black people might be necessary, but I can’t see how this is one?

Im certainly not trying to say “white lives matter” and I hope that isn’t how it comes across! I’m just trying to understand what I’m missing.

For context, I’m autistic and sometimes miss the obvious so just want to emphasise my questions are genuine and well-intentioned, if maybe stupid 🫣

Asking white people not to go feels the opposite of uplifting black people which many people have said is the point.

There have been some really useful comparisons on this thread re single sex spaces.

My example - if was a play that was directly relevant to the autistic community it would be great to see a real drive to encourage autistic people to attend. And I’d expect the show to amplify autistic voices, and feature performances from autistic people. I wouldn’t expect neurotypical people to be discouraged from attending, nor explicitly told to book tickets for another night. I think that’s maybe my issue with this - possibly it’s the marketing that I object to? I absolutely understand the need to encourage more diverse audiences and to emphasise that the theatre is for everyone. I’m just not sure that excluding another group is the way to do it.*

*I know white people wont actually be turned away but the marketing basically ask them not to come.

That’s great, then you don’t have to go to one. This is not being forced on anyone if it doesn’t apply to you then you can move along.

The idea that black people in the UK or any western country, would have the power to create segregated spaces is so idiotic it’s laughable and shows that the person suggesting it has no concept of history or present day life for black people in the west. Look how much chaos this NON SEGREGATED event has created ffs! They’d burn down the building before that happened.

I hate to break it to you but I don't think white people have ever felt uncomfortable with racism.

I don't think any ethnicity ever has.

It's basically the human default.

I am not black but recognise that MN is an extremely racist place. Full of racists who don’t realise they are racists. Fragile souls who get easily upset and outraged.

Who’s idea was to become colour blind

this idea was from white people feeling uncomfortable with racism and deciding let’s all pretend we are all the same share the same goal and forget about how the past has shaped societies

maybe it’s time for white people to not make all the decisions all the time

Snap.

Totally agree.

"I'm not racist but....." is trotted out on here all the time.

Maybe the racism is more cleverly worded than at your average football game or wherever, but it's there, all the same.

These people will never see the racism of others because the they will have to face up to the fact they are racist themselves, so all they can do is deny it exists.

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

I couldn’t agree less! What Newspeak have I wandered into where segregation is anti-racist. George Orwell would either be laughing or crying.

As a Jew, I have no desire to attend a Jew only event.

A non racist country shouldn’t be attempting to divide races and cultures but to bring them together.

No one is barring anyone from theatres. You can go to any theatre in the UK and will not be turned away because of your skin colour.
It is divisive and is segregation of colour, something we moved on from decades ago. Why go back there?

Ir did work.

Black usas president. Asian UK prime minister.

Originally, to eradicate racism the idea was to become colour blind.

White societies agreed, we needed to be one world, one people, and for the boundaries stemming from ethnicity to be totally dissolved.

Then the idea flipped to become the opposite of colour blindness: maybe somehow the colour blind movement didn't work?
So the idea became to be hyper aware of ethnicity and to indulge ideas like this example of segregation, in a sense holding white people to task for something they had zero control over: their ancestry.

What's the third wave, and more importantly, will white societies have the energy to engage?

Yea that’s why. What do you think that says about the black people who would appreciate black out nights then?

The level of racism on this thread is astounding. We can agree to disagree about whether you think a black out night is a good idea. Discussion is helpful and both sides might learn something. What isn’t okay though is to suggest that the experiences of black people are not real, it’s just a marketing ploy, black people are too stupid to deal with the nuance of a mixed space, black people that want this are racist, black people are looking for attention, black people think they own slavery, black people are….IT IS NOT EVEN A BAN ON NON BLACK PEOPLE ATTENDING!

This is how racist the least racist country in the world is!!! It’s so tiring and offensive and more of the same same same shit! Stuble, passive aggressive shit!

Completely agree with this!

And disagree with the PP who said "having a white person sat in the audience doesn't make a difference"

It is racism, pure and simple. Just because it is anti white doesn’t make it any less racist.

Why is this anti-white or racist?

The theatre has suggested that a minority group purchase tickets on the same day so they can share an experience together, nothing more.

Self ghettoisation is still ghettoisation. The ultimate result is completely separate and distinct black and white cultures even with the same cities, something that is seen clearly in the United States but not something I think to be aspired towards in the UK. Thanks for the link, I'll look into it

Why the "no? didn't think so"? You really think you have the high ground here don't you, despite many people both black and white pointing out that this can be seen as divisive, regressive and racist. But what do they know - you're a white woman hellbent on virtue-signalling and no amount of common sense or reasonable debate is going to stop you!

But, though it'll no doubt go straight out the other side....

There may be many reasons why black people are less likely to go to the theatre from financial to cultural and my own 'insight' would suggest more likely financial; I don't spend much time at the theatre these days, but am a very regular feature at the Royal Opera House. Unfortunately, some shows don't sell out and on those evenings tickets are released to 'selected groups' either for free or at very reduced rates. To be clear, I have no idea whether a person has a full-price ticket or a discounted one but on those evenings there are very noticeably more black people. It may of course just be coincidence. But... if it's not... it would possibly suggest that many black people are more worried about the ticket price than feeling unwelcome; on sold out performances, the audience reverts to being almost entirely white and asian which would possibly suggest that even showing them that the theatre isn't such a scary place (even when white people are there!) isn't enough to tempt many back when they have to pay full price, though whether that's because they can't afford it or because they don't think it's worth the money I have no idea - and unlike you, I don't really believe it's my position as a white person to judge the motivations and behaviours of all black people. I was raised to believe that would be no only insulting but really rather racist.

Does the UK have any connection with slavery?

Surely south asians should have more beef with British people

It is racism, pure and simple. Just because it is anti white doesn’t make it any less racist.

Imagine a shop having white only days and people defending it by saying that blacks can shop there 78/80 days. And yes, I do know the (bullshit) argument that you can’t be racist as whites are ‘oppressors’.

In addition, the whole point of theatre is to challenge people’s views and allow them to empathise with people they might not normally easily empathise with.

I can’t imagine this apartheid happening in South Africa, and that is a majority Black Country where there might be a better argument for having them.

Terrible concept probably only happening as the play is too weak to stand on its own two feet.

Also I think in general we are in a period where the arts world seems to be in a period is notof atonement where we replace underrepresntation of people of colour with an interpretation that doesn't seem necessary and in some cases forced. We have Richard Curtis and the Friends creator and cast being wheeled out to give apologies for having non diverse casts in their programs which just seems to be without purpose.

Any period drama now includes poc and again it seems we are having to ranks film versions of classic novels with a diverse cast which doesn't reflect a historical reality. We don't rewrite Austen or Sickens to include poc so why do we feel we need to go this for television and film versioins?